2007 GMC Savanna CV 4.3l and GVWR Questions

[JSDaly]

I own this van. 2007 GMC Savanna G13405

I would like to be able to tow a small travel trailer, not a popup. I understand that there are very strict limitations regarding the weight of the trailers that I can pull but I keep finding conflicting data regarding the actual trailers.

Specs for my van:

• GVRW 7200
• GCRW 9500
• GVW 4700
• DIF 3:42

As I understand it, the GVRW weight of a vehicle is based on the GVW(dry weight) + Carry Capacity. This assumes that the vehicle is loaded to the gunnels with all the cargo that it is capable. 2 people and the cargo space full as well as a full tank of fuel.

I have looked at these 2 trailers.

• Winnebago Micro-Minnie
• Travellite Idea i18
  

Both show a dry weight of around 2900*. Both hold very similar water capacity. But the travellite only allows for a Carry Capacity of 560* vs the Winnie of 2320.

Consequently the Winnie shows a GVWR of 5500* vs the i18@3500*. Seems to me that someone is gaming the numbers.

So here is my question: If I were to buy the Winnie is there anything that would cause me problems if I were to regulate my extra load and just carry less cargo?

[JSDaly]

Okay, we purchased the 2015 Winnebago Micro Minnie 17ft 1705. Dry weight 2750# and the GVR is 5500#. The Savana van weighed out on the local truck scale at about 5300# with me sitting in it. I added a B&M Supercooler and a tranny temperature gauge. The supercooler made a big difference towing with this rig. I added a Equalizer hitch and we probably add about 4~500# in camping supplies. Fill the fresh water tank about 1/3 to half.(12~15 gal)

We have taken a couple local trips and the transmission temperature has been very stable at around 160*, stop and go city driving, and the highway can drop as low as 140*. So I'm not worried about overheating the trans. The 4.3l GM v6 does struggle a little with pulling up hill ,a little doggy but not as bad as I feared. But it does okay if I have to put the spurs to it. The transmission guys explained that as long as I keep it out of overdrive and in 3rd with tow/haul engaged, I should be okay. He said the 4l60e GM trans has 4 plates for each gear up to 3rd and overdrive only has 2 and it can be really easy to burn out the OD pulling an oversized load.

Over all a lot better than I expected.

Thanks for all the feedback.

[JSDaly]

ib516 wrote:
I towed an ultralight 25' TT RV with a 2000 (or 2001) GMC Safari AWD. The RV was about 4900#. The 4.3L really struggled with the excess wind drag and weight. One time it overheated (puked coolant) when I stopped to fill up after fighting a headwind. I think the same engine in a full sized van will REALLY struggle towing an RV.

Yeah, that's a lot heavier and bigger than I want to try to pull. I think I can keep the total trailer weight below 4000 with about 400 for cargo. Weekend trips mostly, no more than a couple hundred miles.

I figure if I use a weight distributing hitch along with a supplemental tranny cooler and a little caution I should be ok. But you're right. Even with that it'll be a dog.

Anyone tried upping the HP of the 4.3 a little with a hotter coil or a chip retune? I figure if I'm riding the raggedy edge I might as well try other things.

My problem is that this van is primarily my work vehicle and it has been customized to that purpose. I'm willing to open the pocket a prevent having to replace it. I've already looked at the SC add on but I think that would be a little over the top.

[ib516]

I towed an ultralight 25' TT RV with a 2000 (or 2001) GMC Safari AWD. The RV was about 4900#. The 4.3L really struggled with the excess wind drag and weight. One time it overheated (puked coolant) when I stopped to fill up after fighting a headwind. I think the same engine in a full sized van will REALLY struggle towing an RV.

[JSDaly]

blt2ski wrote:
If you stay in the under 1000' elevation range, ie mostly in FL, you should generally speaking do fine to about 5K maybe 6K with that motor. BUT a typical 6% freeway/interstate grade can be found ANYWHERE in the US, and you WILL slow down. It only takes around 135HP to motovate a 15K rig with 90sqft of frontal area. So if you can keep said frontal area to nice rounded edges, like an airstream, you can pull a bit more lb wise, not loose as much performance as you will with a box. Also going with a smoother sidewall vs the corrugated aluminum, despite the 3-400 lbs heavier wt of the fiberglass, you will be better off from an ease of towing standpoint.

The chassis is probably capable of upwards of 7-8K lbs handling. Your engine and lack of hp will be your biggest issue. I am also assuming you have a 4 sp auto?!?!?! not the more recent 6 sp. If you have teh 6 sp, your 3.42s are better off than a 4.10 geared rig with the 4l60 trans! so not a real problem.

There was a day, when you 4.3 was a typical BB monster motor in the specs it has! ie in 81, the GM 454 was 195hp and around 330 lb ft of torque! with a much worst trans option too!

Marty

I think you reference the old Turbo 400. Remember it well. But the 454 had more torque than v6 can hope for and torque is king. Yes my van does have the 4 speed transmission.

Since the trailer (9.5' x 7') is only slightly larger than my van's body (7.5' x 6.6'). Shouldn't that produce less drag on the entire structure vs pulling with a smaller TV? I think total additional frontal added by the trailer would be around 30 sq/feet. Or am I off the mark?

One thing for certain everything up to the point where I get this thing hooked up and motivate down the road is theoretical. Then all bets are off.

Funny, I didn't see the middle part of your message until I quoted it. The html formatting engine on this site hacked out everything past the word BUT.

[blt2ski]

If you stay in the under 1000' elevation range, ie mostly in FL, you should generally speaking do fine to about 5K maybe 6K with that motor. BUT
The chassis is probably capable of upwards of 7-8K lbs handling. Your engine and lack of hp will be your biggest issue. I am also assuming you have a 4 sp auto?!?!?! not the more recent 6 sp. If you have teh 6 sp, your 3.42s are better off than a 4.10 geared rig with the 4l60 trans! so not a real problem.

There was a day, when you 4.3 was a typical BB monster motor in the specs it has! ie in 81, the GM 454 was 195hp and around 330 lb ft of torque! with a much worst trans option too!

Marty

[JSDaly]

mkirsch wrote:
Nobody's gaming the numbers.

The Winnebago is a tandem-axle trailer. It has two 3500lb-rated axles.
The Travel Lite is a single-axle trailer. It has one 3500lb-rated axle.

Apples and oranges from a weight perspective.

There is no reason you can't do as you said. Nobody is forcing you to load 2000lbs+ of stuff into the Winnebago.

Theoretically, the Winnebago will tow more easily and be more stable on the road due to the tandem axles. The effects of most potholes for example, will be lessened by 1/2 because only one wheel will be in the pothole at any given time, while the other is on the smooth road.

I hadn't thought about the single vs tandem as the reason for the difference. Thanks for pointing that out. The trips that we plan to use this for will initially be here in Florida. Good to know that the tandem axle will give me more stability.

[JSDaly]

rbtglove wrote:
For what its worth info - Think the Savanna with the 4.3 is only cabable of of about 4300lbs towing. The 4.3 makes max torque at relatively low rpm but with the 3.42 rear going up grades will be a struggle. I Towed with a 2700 dry TT with a similar rig for short time and when I did the scale it was near 3500 ready to go with no water. The dry weight is always low since it is a bare bones base rig and dosen't include any adds. You may be able to get under the max requirements if don't carry much or many in your van and in the TT if your like me you'll soon be looking for a better TV. If you don't have the tow package you'll have to add a brake controller and trans cooler and it may not be worth the effort.

I do have the tow package w/trans cooler and tow/haul mode, but I do need to add the brake controller and I plan on using a weight distributing hitch. Living in Florida makes the hill problem less of an issue. I definately would upgrade the TV if I planned to go to the mountains.

[mkirsch]

Nobody's gaming the numbers.

The Winnebago is a tandem-axle trailer. It has two 3500lb-rated axles.
The Travel Lite is a single-axle trailer. It has one 3500lb-rated axle.

Apples and oranges from a weight perspective.

There is no reason you can't do as you said. Nobody is forcing you to load 2000lbs+ of stuff into the Winnebago.

Theoretically, the Winnebago will tow more easily and be more stable on the road due to the tandem axles. The effects of most potholes for example, will be lessened by 1/2 because only one wheel will be in the pothole at any given time, while the other is on the smooth road.

[rbtglove]

For what its worth info - Think the Savanna with the 4.3 is only cabable of of about 4300lbs towing. The 4.3 makes max torque at relatively low rpm but with the 3.42 rear going up grades will be a struggle. I Towed with a 2700 dry TT with a similar rig for short time and when I did the scale it was near 3500 ready to go with no water. The dry weight is always low since it is a bare bones base rig and dosen't include any adds. You may be able to get under the max requirements if don't carry much or many in your van and in the TT if your like me you'll soon be looking for a better TV. If you don't have the tow package you'll have to add a brake controller and trans cooler and it may not be worth the effort.

[JSDaly]

Sorry. Yes, typo. Dyslexia. I'm happy to see that I'm correct on the theory. I will do the math on the rear axle and adjust accordingly.

Can you explain why the GVWR of the trailers and the carry capacity vary so drastically? Is it simply because they are borrowing from the CC to lower the GVWR?

And if that is the case what does it say about the company that is touting the lower number? They must realize that some folks will toss the kitchen sink in the trailer and weights be damned?

[KD4UPL]

One number you list is GCRW, I suspect you mis-typed, it's GCWR, or Gross Combination Weight Rating. This is the most your van plus trailer plus any and all passengers and cargo can weigh. If you subtract the van's GVW of 4700 form this GCWR of 9500 you are left with 4,800 pounds. This is all the weight you can add for passengers, gear, trailer, everything. I would guess that 2 people would weight at least 350 pounds so that leaves only 4,450 for the trailer and gear. If you can pack it lightly enough to stay within that then you are within your towing numbers. If carrying less cargo will get you there it should be fine.
Another thing to be aware of is the weight on the vans rear axle. This rating should be listed on the door sticker as GRAW. You will need to weigh the rear axle of your van with it fully loaded with passengers and fuel as you would go camping. Subtract the scale weight from the GRAW and that is how much you have left for tongue weight. Most trailers have around 13% tongue weight. So if you keep the trailer weight down to 4,450 that will be about 600 pounds of tongue weight. Your weight distributing hitch set up will add nearly 100 pounds so you need to make sure you have 700 pounds of additional capacity on your rear axle.