A different weight question

[TundraTower]

I do not have a good understanding on how GVWR is applied to a travel trailer rig. The question is whether the tongue weight and it's effects have to be counted in both the truck and trailer weights.

1. If we weigh the coupled rig on the scales the sum of the truck axles would compare to the truck GVWR, but the trailer axles are only going to represent the trailer wheel weight and not include the tongue weight. But it does represent how the rig is actually loaded.

2. If we weigh the truck and trailer separately, that would fairly represent those weights separately but does not reflect how the truck is loaded going down the road.

3. If we compare connected truck weight to its GVWR, and then compare the uncoupled free standing weight of the trailer to the trailer GVWR, then most of the tongue weight is counted twice - once on the truck and again on the trailer.

It is this #3 concept that I have been using but I struggle with having to count tongue weight against both ratings.

I'm not asking if it's legal, whether you would get ticketed, how the axles or tires are rated, whether I need SRW or DRW, etc. And yes I know about and understand the GCWR which is straight forward.

Just simply trying to understand how the tongue weight should be applied relative to the GVWR of the truck and trailer and whether it is actually intended to be counted twice.

[BenK]

Before getting PM’s tomorrow morning...

Load up both TV and trailer. WD system fully tensioned

Go to a CAT scale and weigh the whole setup and the CAT Scale should also provide weights for each axle of the whole setup. TV front, rear and trailer

Then without moving, disconnect the WD bars (remove all tension) and reweigh EVERYTHING again

Now you will have the weights indicating where the tongue weight was distributed

PS...if you have an Anderson...it WD’s differently than a traditional setup as described above

[lbrjet]

Sounds like you are trying to ask if the tongue weight should go against the trailer GVWR. The answer is yes.

[BenK]

A wheelbarrow has a ball/stinger on the rear between the handle

You stand on the trailer tongue, which is on that wheelbarrow ball/stinger

You hold both of the wheelbarro'w handles and lift up...while standing on the trailer tongue (not standing on pavement)

You have removed 'some' of the trailer tongue weight off of the ball/stinger and moved (WD'd) it to the wheelbarrow's front wheel....***AND***....since standing on the trailer tongue...added 'some' of that weight you lifted off of the wheelbarrow...back onto the trailer tongue

It is that simple and if you wish to figure it out to the placement of each pound...then go to the top of this forum and read Ron Gratz's sticky on this topic

[time2roll]

There is not one formula for determining the max weight. Need to apply several formulas and if any are over you need to adjust your equipment to stay in the ratings.

GVWR of each vehicle, GAWR for each axle, and GCWR for the total. These are separate calculations. If any of these are over, you are over the rating. They work together to make sure all is balanced. Under one rating does not allow you to ignore the others.

The #3 where you seem to be counting twice is two separate calculations. When you are on the scale nothing is counted twice.

[Mickeyfan0805]

wnjj wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

So in fact. The tongue weight only counts toward the weight / GVWR of the TV.

If some trailers rate the GVWR higher than its axle rating, that implies the hitch weight IS included in the trailer GVWR. The trailer GVWR is the sum of the weight carried by the axles plus the weight on the tongue. That is what that “vehicle” can weigh in total regardless of how it is towed or hauled.

As WN points out - the gross weight of the trailer is the max amount the entire unit can way - uncoupled. A trailer with an 8k GVWR may only have axles/tires good for 7,200 pounds. Ignoring the re-distributing factor of a WDH, the hitch is always carrying that weight (whether coupled or not), but it is still part of the overall calculation of the weight of the trailer. So, the entire weight of the trailer (hitch and axles) should be under the GVWR of the trailer. Similarly, the entire weight of the vehicle, plus the hitch weight, should be under the GVWR of the truck.

In other words, the hitch weight counts against both GVWR limits. It only counts once, however, against the GCVWR (which is the initial confusion for the OP).

[wnjj]

Terryallan wrote:
I may be wrong, or over simplifying. But, When the TT is hooked up. The TV is carrying the tongue weight. It only counts toward GVWR weight of the TV. This is the reason "many / most" TT axles are not rated for the full GVWR of the TT. Because the trailer axles never have to carry the full weight of the TT on the highway.

Of course when the trailer is unhooked, the tongue weight is sitting on the tongue jack, so again. The trailer axles are not carrying the full weight of the trailer.
So in fact. The tongue weight only counts toward the weight / GVWR of the TV.

If some trailers rate the GVWR higher than its axle rating, that implies the hitch weight IS included in the trailer GVWR. The trailer GVWR is the sum of the weight carried by the axles plus the weight on the tongue. That is what that “vehicle” can weigh in total regardless of how it is towed or hauled.

[twodownzero]

GVWR is the weight on the tires of the vehicle. The tongue weight is included in the GVW of the truck, and is hopefully below the GVWR of the truck.

"GCVWR" does not exist. I think the rating the above poster wanted was "GCWR." The word "vehicle" does not exist in the rating because you're not talking about a vehicle at that point, you're talking about a vehicle combination.

[blt2ski]

WHen coupled, tongue wt as mentioned, goes against the GVW of the tow rig.
It does go against the trailer gvwr too, but from a loaded standpoint, going down the highway, HW is on against the truck.

Marty

[Terryallan]

I may be wrong, or over simplifying. But, When the TT is hooked up. The TV is carrying the tongue weight. It only counts toward GVWR weight of the TV. This is the reason "many / most" TT axles are not rated for the full GVWR of the TT. Because the trailer axles never have to carry the full weight of the TT on the highway.

Of course when the trailer is unhooked, the tongue weight is sitting on the tongue jack, so again. The trailer axles are not carrying the full weight of the trailer.
So in fact. The tongue weight only counts toward the weight / GVWR of the TV.

[Mickeyfan0805]

As stated above - all of the points you mention matter. To your particular question, however, the distinction is that you can't add points 1 and 2 together to get number 3. Adding the weight of the coupled truck to the uncoupled trailer would, indeed, double-count the tongue and give you a weight higher than your reality. Similarly, you can't add the uncoupled truck to the coupled trailer, as that would undercalculate your weight.

You can add the uncoupled truck to the uncoupled trailer, or the coupled rig to the coupled trailer, or just weigh the whole thing together (the best option, if possible) - but you can't cross between categories, as that is where you would get mixed up.

[IdaD]

What OB said. I think the concept you're missing is the truck's GCVWR which is going to be the total weight of both - truck axles plus trailer axles (which share the tongue/pin when connected).

[Old-Biscuit]

Trailer GVWR is Total weight rating of trailer....axle plus tongue

Truck GVWR is Total weight rating of truck....EVERYTHING that is in truck, on truck, being carried by truck (so yes this includes tongue weight of trailer)