Max Pin Weight

[newrver327]

I am one of the many who bought the tow vehicle before the 5th wheel rv. I have a 2009 duramax cc 2500 thinking I could then get anything I wanted,i know now "Not". So here's my question, what max pin weight would you suggest that I could be comfortable with? I know a 3500 would have been the way to go.

gcwr 22000 lbs.
gvwr 9200 lbs.
gw 6900 lbs. this is with a full tank

If I got it figured correctly that leaves me with 2300 lbs. for me my wife and 5th wheel hitch and pin weight, I know I will run out of load limit before I reach my rawr. So any rvers so went thru the same thing I would like some feedback.

[Cummins12V98]

rhagfo wrote:

IdaD wrote:

donn0128 wrote:

MFL wrote:
You understand the numbers, and yours are correct. IMO, even though I am not, many people towing FWs exceed the GVWR of the tow vehicle. I have no problem with this on a 3/4 ton truck, within reason, say 500 lbs or less. The important number is the RAWR, or tire max load.

In your case, I would not be worried about adding 2,200 lbs of pin wt, plus a 200 lb hitch, as long as you don't add any additional heavy items to the bed. This will put you over GVWR, but well under rear axle and tire rating.

Jerry

Why?
Why is RAWR important? It is simply the load rating of a single componemt, not the sum of the total package. Same for tires? What do they have to do with the complete package ratings?
The answer is NOTHING!
The axle mfg did not assemble the vehicle. The tire mfg did not assemble the vehicle. They are not responsible for what vehicle others use their product for, as long as someone else does not overload their product thwir in the clear liability wise.
Your comments are so irrational on so many levels its no longer funny. Just sad.

The RAWR from the vehicle manufacturer on the door accounts for the axle, tire, wheel, suspension and chassis. Ditto the FAWR. The axle weight rating from the axle manufacturer is far in excess of the vehicle manufacturer axle weight rating.

I believe the axle weight rating per AAM for the rear axle on my Ram is around 11,000 lbs. The RAWR per Ram is only 6500 lbs (go to a SRW 3500 and you gain 500 lbs - stiffer rear springs being the only difference between the vehicles).

On HD trucks, stay within your (vehicle manufacturer) axle and tire ratings and you'll have no issues at all, imo.

Yep,
You want to talk some messed up numbers, just look at my 2001 Ram 2500 with Camper and tow packages.
#1. 8,800# GVWR, camper packge doesn't change that number, even though you get the 3500 springs, and lager tires with 373# more capacity each.
Front GAWR = 5,200#
Rear GAWR = 6,084# this is total capacity of the stock rear tires.

Total axle rating 11,284. the Optional tires for Camper package are rated at 3'415# ea. for a total of 13,660# capacity.

While well over the 8,880# GVWR, I am still 500# UNDER the 6,084# rear axle rating. :h

The only "add-on" to the rear suspension, is the Bilstein shocks.:)

This rig tows great.
Not a recommendation, just what works for us.

My 98 2500 RAM sat exactly like yours with a 32.5' Avion Platinum in tow combined 20,500#.

[BenK]

Yup...they most all are messed up

Take my 1996 K3500 Suburban. Tongue'n cheek call it a K3500 'cuz ordered it with
the snow plow prep, option #F60 and begets 1 ton front torsion bars/etc

OEM FGAWR is 4,250 and stayed the same with the F60 option. OEM 1 ton dually
has a FGAWR of 5,400 IIRC.

OEM RGAWR is 6,000 and is the same rating as the 1 ton dually of that year. AAM
rates that 10.5" diff assembly 10,000 GAWR

So should I take the OEM 8,600 GVWR to become 5,400 + 6,000 = 11,400 GVWR ???

Or take 5,400 + 10,000 = 15,400 GVWR ???

Then gotta change tires and wheels from LT class to commercial class

Then what about the brakes and a huge etc, etc, etc

Ratings are a system with weak links...but we on the outside of the design
team will NEVER know which one(s) it is...

[rhagfo]

IdaD wrote:

donn0128 wrote:

MFL wrote:
You understand the numbers, and yours are correct. IMO, even though I am not, many people towing FWs exceed the GVWR of the tow vehicle. I have no problem with this on a 3/4 ton truck, within reason, say 500 lbs or less. The important number is the RAWR, or tire max load.

In your case, I would not be worried about adding 2,200 lbs of pin wt, plus a 200 lb hitch, as long as you don't add any additional heavy items to the bed. This will put you over GVWR, but well under rear axle and tire rating.

Jerry

Why?
Why is RAWR important? It is simply the load rating of a single componemt, not the sum of the total package. Same for tires? What do they have to do with the complete package ratings?
The answer is NOTHING!
The axle mfg did not assemble the vehicle. The tire mfg did not assemble the vehicle. They are not responsible for what vehicle others use their product for, as long as someone else does not overload their product thwir in the clear liability wise.
Your comments are so irrational on so many levels its no longer funny. Just sad.

The RAWR from the vehicle manufacturer on the door accounts for the axle, tire, wheel, suspension and chassis. Ditto the FAWR. The axle weight rating from the axle manufacturer is far in excess of the vehicle manufacturer axle weight rating.

I believe the axle weight rating per AAM for the rear axle on my Ram is around 11,000 lbs. The RAWR per Ram is only 6500 lbs (go to a SRW 3500 and you gain 500 lbs - stiffer rear springs being the only difference between the vehicles).

On HD trucks, stay within your (vehicle manufacturer) axle and tire ratings and you'll have no issues at all, imo.

Yep,
You want to talk some messed up numbers, just look at my 2001 Ram 2500 with Camper and tow packages.
#1. 8,800# GVWR, camper packge doesn't change that number, even though you get the 3500 springs, and lager tires with 373# more capacity each.
Front GAWR = 5,200#
Rear GAWR = 6,084# this is total capacity of the stock rear tires.

Total axle rating 11,284. the Optional tires for Camper package are rated at 3'415# ea. for a total of 13,660# capacity.

While well over the 8,880# GVWR, I am still 500# UNDER the 6,084# rear axle rating. :h

The only "add-on" to the rear suspension, is the Bilstein shocks.:)

This rig tows great.
Not a recommendation, just what works for us.

[MFL]

donn0128 wrote:

MFL wrote:
You understand the numbers, and yours are correct. IMO, even though I am not, many people towing FWs exceed the GVWR of the tow vehicle. I have no problem with this on a 3/4 ton truck, within reason, say 500 lbs or less. The important number is the RAWR, or tire max load.

In your case, I would not be worried about adding 2,200 lbs of pin wt, plus a 200 lb hitch, as long as you don't add any additional heavy items to the bed. This will put you over GVWR, but well under rear axle and tire rating.

Jerry

Why?
Why is RAWR important? It is simply the load rating of a single componemt, not the sum of the total package. Same for tires? What do they have to do with the complete package ratings?
The answer is NOTHING!
The axle mfg did not assemble the vehicle. The tire mfg did not assemble the vehicle. They are not responsible for what vehicle others use their product for, as long as someone else does not overload their product thwir in the clear liability wise.
Your comments are so irrational on so many levels its no longer funny. Just sad.

Don, you have been on this forum long enough to know the differences between modern 3/4 ton HD trucks, compared to 1 ton SRW trucks. If you haven't figured it out, that is just sad, I will not explain it to you again!

Have a great day!:)
Jerry

[IdaD]

donn0128 wrote:

MFL wrote:
You understand the numbers, and yours are correct. IMO, even though I am not, many people towing FWs exceed the GVWR of the tow vehicle. I have no problem with this on a 3/4 ton truck, within reason, say 500 lbs or less. The important number is the RAWR, or tire max load.

In your case, I would not be worried about adding 2,200 lbs of pin wt, plus a 200 lb hitch, as long as you don't add any additional heavy items to the bed. This will put you over GVWR, but well under rear axle and tire rating.

Jerry

Why?
Why is RAWR important? It is simply the load rating of a single componemt, not the sum of the total package. Same for tires? What do they have to do with the complete package ratings?
The answer is NOTHING!
The axle mfg did not assemble the vehicle. The tire mfg did not assemble the vehicle. They are not responsible for what vehicle others use their product for, as long as someone else does not overload their product thwir in the clear liability wise.
Your comments are so irrational on so many levels its no longer funny. Just sad.

The RAWR from the vehicle manufacturer on the door accounts for the axle, tire, wheel, suspension and chassis. Ditto the FAWR. The axle weight rating from the axle manufacturer is far in excess of the vehicle manufacturer axle weight rating.

I believe the axle weight rating per AAM for the rear axle on my Ram is around 11,000 lbs. The RAWR per Ram is only 6500 lbs (go to a SRW 3500 and you gain 500 lbs - stiffer rear springs being the only difference between the vehicles).

On HD trucks, stay within your (vehicle manufacturer) axle and tire ratings and you'll have no issues at all, imo.

[Cummins12V98]

Simple, load your truck with bodies, hitch and everything you typically do for towing. Go to the scales, what does your rear axle weigh? Subtract that # from your MAX load rating of your rear tires. Now take 25% of the GVR of a 5er you are looking at. If pin number is lex than what capacity you had left on the rear axle you are good to go. This is for SRW trucks.

[donn0128]

MFL wrote:
You understand the numbers, and yours are correct. IMO, even though I am not, many people towing FWs exceed the GVWR of the tow vehicle. I have no problem with this on a 3/4 ton truck, within reason, say 500 lbs or less. The important number is the RAWR, or tire max load.

In your case, I would not be worried about adding 2,200 lbs of pin wt, plus a 200 lb hitch, as long as you don't add any additional heavy items to the bed. This will put you over GVWR, but well under rear axle and tire rating.

Jerry

Why?
Why is RAWR important? It is simply the load rating of a single componemt, not the sum of the total package. Same for tires? What do they have to do with the complete package ratings?
The answer is NOTHING!
The axle mfg did not assemble the vehicle. The tire mfg did not assemble the vehicle. They are not responsible for what vehicle others use their product for, as long as someone else does not overload their product thwir in the clear liability wise.
Your comments are so irrational on so many levels its no longer funny. Just sad.

[MFL]

You understand the numbers, and yours are correct. IMO, even though I am not, many people towing FWs exceed the GVWR of the tow vehicle. I have no problem with this on a 3/4 ton truck, within reason, say 500 lbs or less. The important number is the RAWR, or tire max load.

In your case, I would not be worried about adding 2,200 lbs of pin wt, plus a 200 lb hitch, as long as you don't add any additional heavy items to the bed. This will put you over GVWR, but well under rear axle and tire rating.

Jerry

[boshog]

newrver327 wrote:
Some addition information on my truck. Also thanks for your information.

If you want to take the safe route, look on the driver's door sill for a yellow bordered placard, it will list the tire pressures and also state the maximum payload the truck can safely carry which includes all fluids, people, tongue/pin weights.

This is from my RAM 3500 Cummins, 4x4 CC SRW



I'm curious what your placard shows for payload, I would like to compare that number to old-biscuits math and see how that works out.

[newrver327]

Some addition information on my truck.

Rear tire load rating is 3240lbs.x 2= total 6480lbs.

Front axle rating 4800lbs.
Front axle load 4160lbs.

Rear axle rating 6000lbs.
Rear axle load 2760lbs.

Also thanks for your information.

[Old-Biscuit]

Problem is the low GVWR (9200#)

GVW of 6900# leaves you 2300# before reaching GVWR
BUT
how much weight do you have on rear axle? And how much is RAWR?
Difference between the two is what you have for available payload.

EX: RAWR---6084
Weight ----2900
Payload----3184 (3200)

Subtract 5vr hitch weight, wife? and any stuff you have in truck (in door pockets,under seats, in bags etc)....400#

Now you have 2800# of payload left

12000# GVWR 5vr will have roughly a 2400# wet pin weight

You are under RAWR-----under rear tire loading
And you are over GVWR (6900 + 2400====9300)

Those mfg. published max tow and combined tow numbers are magical marketing numbers based on a 'base model with 150# driver and 20# cargo'

Real world is you run out of GVWR , RAWR and/or Rear Tire Load Rating LONG before you reach those magical tow numbers


Take your truck fully loaded camp ready (You, fuel, wife, stuff) and go to a scale and get weighed.
This will give you the real numbers......see how much weight you can add to rear axle/tires.
Use 20% of 5vr GVWR as a wet pin weight

Like in my example........12K 5vr
You probably would be OK with a GVWR of 12K as you would not be towing trailer at GVWR.
You will be over trucks GVWR.

[Golden_HVAC]

I know a guy who bought a 1984 F-150 with a slim cargo rating, and 351" engine. He was looking at travel trailers with a 750 pound hitch weight, but ended up with a 24' Wilderness fifth wheel, I would guess it might have had a 1,500 pound pin weight, it was tiny compartment for sleeping up in the front (think camper cabover, not really the walk in style of today).

Anyway it is possible to tow way more trailer than the truck is 'rated' for. Yes you could tow fine with a 2,000 pound hitch weight, and still not go anywhere close to the tire weight rating on your rear tires.

What is your front and rear axle weight? My guess is with a 6,900 pound overall weight, that about 4,000 is on the front and 2,900 on the rear axle as it sits. That leaves around 2,500 more that you can safely add to the rear axle, however it will put you over the GVWR. Are you worried about warranty problems with a 7 year old truck? I would not be either. Basically it is similar to the 3500 truck that you should have bought. . .

Anyway you will know better with the next pickup. . .

Fred.