Paid for but vacant sites

[BluStem]

Most state parks in Iowa consider a site occupied if it's payed for.
I find out from co-workers that some public parks they have been to require a payed site to be occupied with a camper or someone else can take it. I maintain if a site is payed for then it should be yours regardless if you have a unit on it or not. Why wouldn't it?

[DiskDoctr]

broark01 wrote:
Us older folks who have an Interagency Senior Pass pay 1/2 price. Means I can actually lease 2 campsites for the price of one so I have room to spread out and not have to be looking into someones tent out of every window. I might even lease the whole campground then sublease spaces. I think I just figured out how I am going to retire.

If you're talking about America the Beautiful passes, you should read the rules more carefully. It ONLY permits you to a discount for ONE site, the one YOU are occupying, not 2, not 17 😉

[StaJs]

wny_pat wrote:
You have to know the rules of the park before reserving a site! Doesn't matter what you think the rules ought to be. Your expectations without knowing the rules mean nothing.

The issue isn't about knowing the rules. They are known. Read the OP.

[broark01]

belfert wrote:
I think the main concern most have is with government owned parks that are often taxpayer subsidized. Government owned parks that take reservations often are fully reserved as soon as reservations open. There is usually a waiting list of campers who actually want to use the site.

Well, there you go, learn the rules play by the rules. Us older folks who have an Interagency Senior Pass pay 1/2 price. Means I can actually lease 2 campsites for the price of one so I have room to spread out and not have to be looking into someones tent out of every window. I might even lease the whole campground then sublease spaces. I think I just figured out how I am going to retire.

[wny_pat1]

BluStem wrote:

Lantley wrote:

There is a point where the CG can/should release the site to someone else.

Yes, when the site lease has expired. No sooner.

Lantley wrote:
Late arrivals are not the issue. It's those that reserve days with no intention of using them that create hardship for others looking to use those days.

The hardship would be for the party who paid for it and showed up thinking they had a site secured and someone else was in it.

You have to know the rules of the park before reserving a site! Doesn't matter what you think the rules ought to be. Your expectations without knowing the rules mean nothing.

[Tom_Diane]

BluStem wrote:
Most state parks in Iowa consider a site occupied if it's payed for.
I find out from co-workers that some public parks they have been to require a payed site to be occupied with a camper or someone else can take it. I maintain if a site is payed for then it should be yours regardless if you have a unit on it or not. Why wouldn't it?

I personally like the first come first serve system. Having that said, The park where we hosted for a couple of years allows for tents, RV's , car or person to save, not reserve a site. At first come ,first serve ,you are not reserving a site as the rules don't allow it. You are however saving a site but if its empty, a simple tag on the post does not gaurentee your spot will be there if you choose to go someplace or intend to bring your unit in at a later time. I fully believe that if you have time to drive to a first come ,first serve park then you have time to set a small tent or bring the RV with you. I have seen tarps laid down on the ground and they are not allowed but were tolerated. I had one guy leave a broom and then hollered and screamed when I allowed a lady to have that spot since it was the last spot in the park. You have an hour from arrival to register, he forgot his wallet and had to go back home to get it and just hung the tag. We later found out he hung the tag and never put money in the self registration post. That's wrong. So if you were allowed to just register and the host has no hand in taking money, then who knows who has paid for that night because they didn't want to bring the rv at that time. That is theft and it cost the park money because someone else could use that site that has paid. In state parks the best sites are taken all year long. I don't like it but its the rules, just like in county parks and theirs rule regarding first come first serve. I shouldnt tell on my self but as host I would get a call from a camper ask if I knew of if any spots were open. If I knew, I would tell them and if they could make it with in the hour I would personally hold that spot for them with my vehicle. I did this for all campers and encouraged those I met to call me if they had to drive a little bit to get to the park. My preferred system is frustrating if you want a spot on a holiday weekend, but we have different groups from surrounding towns that compete for sites in a particular area and they have been known to come in and lay down tents,hang tags and leave for 10 days and arrive with their RV's at that time. Sure they are paid for sites but someone else could have used that site, You also pay more for that reseved site at State parks.

[belfert]

I think the main concern most have is with government owned parks that are often taxpayer subsidized. Government owned parks that take reservations often are fully reserved as soon as reservations open. There is usually a waiting list of campers who actually want to use the site.

[BluStem]

Lantley wrote:

There is a point where the CG can/should release the site to someone else.

Yes, when the site lease has expired. No sooner.

Lantley wrote:
Late arrivals are not the issue. It's those that reserve days with no intention of using them that create hardship for others looking to use those days.

The hardship would be for the party who paid for it and showed up thinking they had a site secured and someone else was in it.

[westernrvparkow]

This is why the best policy is a reservation deposit, rather than site payment. You make a reservation, don't show up on the appointed day, deposit is forfeited and the site is available to rent to the next guest. Years ago we had to amend that practice to include a similar fee for shortening your stay. Seems people were fine with reserving a block of days and then leaving whenever they decided they had enjoyed themselves enough. We instituted an early departure fee equal to the site deposit fee, we disclose it up front, and now we don't have people cancelling out the last 3 days of a 10 day reservation. Now we are able to run close to full occupancy, don't have a problem with sites coming available at the last minute, aren't processing a bunch of refunds and don't have to turn away business because we are booked and then people who have sites reserved cancel out leaving us with empty sites and the people who really wanted to come, out of luck as well.

[Javi1]

Campfire Time wrote:

Javi1 wrote:
Not sure how it is selfish to pay for something, must be from another generation or another planet.

Not sure how it is unselfish to pay for something that you don't intend to use, that others could use and really want to use, just so you can have a couple of "prime days in a prime site". Its all about courtesy and respect. At least that's how it is on my planet and in my generation.

On my planet and in my generation if I pay in full for a site, I'm still using it even if I'm not there. If I'm willing to pay for a week and only use the site for the weekend that should be my prerogative and you shouldn't feel put out by it.

If the objective is to run as many folks through a campsite as possibly, maybe there should be a one night limit for everyone and no reservation or prepay at all. That way you takes what you gets and don't fuss about it. 😄

[ddschuman]

We were traveling through Santa Rosa,NM this past May and had reserved a site at the State Park for one night weeks before arriving. We called ahead to let them know we would be arriving a little after 6pm and make sure late arrivals were ok. When we arrived, someone had taken our site. The rangers office was closed so we asked if they had reserved the site. They said no, it was just empty when they showed up. There was a red reserved sign on the post...hmmm. They moved. I think some people assume it will be abandoned when in fact it won't be. We reserved the particular site because it was the only one available when we made the reservation that was large enough for our FW. Those that took our site could fit into any of the available sites that were left which there were a few so I definitely didn't feel bad about asking them to move. I am sure that some state parks and possibly this one too gets people who reserve sites and never show up but people should never assume on there own accord that the site will be vacant.

[Lantley]

abc40kids wrote:
You can beat this subject up all day and night.... I paid in full for a sight once that ended up I couldn't get there till Saturday as opposed to Friday. When I got there the office told me they were about to give my site to someone else.

Sorry, but if I pay for one, two or three sites there mine unless otherwise stated in their rules or explained to me when I make my reservations. Too one of the above posters..... Yes, if you rent the whole park for the whole weekend it's yours whether you show or not.

Unless stated in the rules it's a pretty simple concept.

There is a point where the CG can/should release the site to someone else. Once again a simple phone call would eliminate any concerns.
Late arrivals are not the issue. It's those that reserve days with no intention of using them that create hardship for others looking to use those days.

[Campfire_Time]

Javi1 wrote:
Not sure how it is selfish to pay for something, must be from another generation or another planet.

Not sure how it is unselfish to pay for something that you don't intend to use, that others could use and really want to use, just so you can have a couple of "prime days in a prime site". Its all about courtesy and respect. At least that's how it is on my planet and in my generation.

rockhillmanor wrote:
Interesting that all seem to think they 'know' why a paid for site is not occupied. And they 'know' it has to be a inconsiderate person.:R

Last year one of the seasonal's spouse died. Yup their site was empty for the whole season. Should she give up her paid site to you because she had a death in her family?

The site next to me in regular paid camping was empty for 4 weeks because the DH had a stroke during their stay and the DW and family were now parked in their RV in the HOSPITAL parking lot to be close to him praying for him to live.

Just saying don't broad stroke it cause you don't know. When it comes to a prepaid site and others calling an RV'er inconsiderate for not occupying it 24 hours is just plain ludicrous and again you do NOT know the circumstances. I could have pulled in the night before and left in the early morning to go sight seeing. And yup I'd be pissed to come back and find anyone's truck in my CG site because some finger pointer thought it was empty and felt it was their 'right' to use it. :R

Calm down. for one, I don't think we're talking about privately run CGs. At least I'm not. Most private CGs have plenty of available sites so who cares is someone pays for a week and doesn't use it. And while some have seasonal wait lists, most don't. And no one in the thread said anything about a site being unoccupied during the day because you went sight seeing. Everyone with motor homes does that all the time.

Yea, things happen. I get it, so do most campground owners and rangers for the public CGs. That's why we have phones and the CG has a phone. But until WI DNR changed the occupancy rules, we'd see fully 25-50% of the electric sites unused for days or a week, even though the office said all electric sites were full. Did all those people REALLY have extenuating circumstances? Really? Not likely.

[Veebyes]

A thorny subject. The CG wants to get best financial return. Some CGs also want to get best use out of the CG.

Yes it is nice to have sites paid for. Even better to have them paid for & being enjoyed. Hotels can be notified for a late arrival. The difference is you can't tell if a hotel room is occupied or not.

The policy of a site being held till the next day does not help the camper who is there looking for a site the day before. The weekend warrior cannot take a day off work to go put his camper in a site on Friday. He may also have kids activities on Friday or Saturday morning.

There is no easy way that is fair to all.

[relaxin]

loulou57 wrote:
In our provincial parks (Ontario), you must occupy the site. If you have a seasonal site where you are set up it is different.

I understand people wanting a seasonal site, however I feel that our provincial parks were supposed to be for everyone not for a few who are lucky enough in a draw to get a site. It really bothers me when you go to a northern park that is supposed to be a wilderness park, meaning very few amenities and you see sites set up with little fences around or sheds and large patio furniture set up on a deck. If people want a permanent site then go to a trailer park where you can add all you want.

You can reserve five months ahead but it seems now that if you do not reserve within a few days of the five month deadline you will never get a site. Therefore seasonal sites in a public park should not be allowed.

When we booked our holidays there was only one site available in all of Ontario. We still had to drive 10 hours to get to it.

AMEN !!!
our constipation areas,,,, or is that conservation areas? LOL anyways allot of them allow seasonals and they receive a large influx of tax dollars to keep them afloat each year, yet as a tax payer I have a very difficult time in getting a site, never mind a nice site as they have all been taken up by the seasonal campers, I can understand the need for the guaranteed income if the park is not busy, but it should have delegated sites for that, and an equal amount of good and crappy , so say if there is 10 water front sites and the park allows a 50% seasonal occupancy than only 50% of those sites should be allowed to be used as seasonal. Take an example like Durham conservation area, south of Owen sound on the Saugeen river, it use to be a really nice park on a beautiful section of river, the last time I was there it looked like a refugee camp, talk about a pile of trailer trash, the only thing that was missing was bubbles and julian (from trailer park boys) a rule was made about permanent structures due to municipal tax laws so some of these rednecks built tarp addarooms and tarp condos and a couple had areas enclosed with tarps and 2x3's bigger than their trailers, a car on blocks on one site, dismantled bicycles piled up on another, among other junk on some, I was never so disgusted, I wrote a couple letters to various people up their food chain, don't know if anything changed, have not been back there in about 6 years.

for reservations Ontario parks holds a site till noon the next day, if you have an issue,,, medical, vehicle problems, if you call they will hold it for you beyond that.
I have witnessed people come in on a thursday, drop a trailer open the awning and set out 2 chairs, then leave and come back friday night. I never camp that close to home that I could fees-ably do that, but hey if thats what it takes, that could be considered as occupying the site, they arrived set up, left and came back within 24 hours, whats the difference if I was to get a site say at bon echo, and go for a hike in or canoe in at kawartha lakes for 1 night leaving my fith wheel at bon echo set up or to be a cypris lake set up for a week and go spend a night out on flowerpot island.
what I don't like to see is when someone books early and then cancels at the last minute just to gaurenty a site, thats not fair, and it use to be quite common practice untill they started charging for cancelled reservations days