Taking Personal Responsibility to new lows.

[westernrvparkow]

Recent review of Lazy Days RV Park in Florida has the park getting a 1 out of 10. Reason, the reviewer broke their ankle.
Did they break their ankle because the park had carelessly left equipment laying around? No. Was the park at fault because a walkway, stairs or piece of recreational equipment failed? No. Was the floors in the office, store, laundry or bathhouses wet and slick from a spill? Nyet.
The failure of the park...Leaves on a hill BEHIND the reviewer's RV. The reviewer gave no reason why they felt they had to be climbing on the hill, but they apparently felt it was the park's fault that either the hill was there or that their trees drop leaves. And people wonder why there has to be signs everywhere warning people if you do something stupid you might get hurt.

[seagrace]

jplante4 wrote:

2012Coleman wrote:
So had the reviewer experienced more corporal punishment growing up, they would have realized the incident could have been their own fault, and therefore written a more positive review?

That's quite the condensation of several pages of comments. I believe where this went was if the reviewer had gotten a swift smack on the butt instead of being told they're special, they would have known the difference between right and wrong, would have known that they made a mistake, and there would have been no review at all.

Look at some of the most recurrent themes in this forum - camping etiquette, blocking fuel pumps, picking up after pets. At the bottom of these threads is a group of people who never learn how to behave in polite society. These are people who got away with this type of behavior as kids with no real repercussions.

I certainly agree with this assessment. However, there are (IMHO better) methods for teaching right and wrong than beating it into someone.

You wonder why so many people resort to violence to resolve issues - ex: Road Rage? They are taught that violence is an acceptable solution by parents that "spank" them and they are simply putting that "life lesson" to use.

Not beating your children as discipline does not equal bad parenting. In fact, I would and am, arguing that a non-violent approach is BETTER parenting. It requires parents to exhibit discipline themselves, and find creative and productive approaches to parenting.

Bad parenting comes from parents that don't care, and that is carried on through generations.

[jplante4]

2012Coleman wrote:
So had the reviewer experienced more corporal punishment growing up, they would have realized the incident could have been their own fault, and therefore written a more positive review?

That's quite the condensation of several pages of comments. I believe where this went was if the reviewer had gotten a swift smack on the butt instead of being told they're special, they would have known the difference between right and wrong, would have known that they made a mistake, and there would have been no review at all.

Look at some of the most recurrent themes in this forum - camping etiquette, blocking fuel pumps, picking up after pets. At the bottom of these threads is a group of people who never learn how to behave in polite society. These are people who got away with this type of behavior as kids with no real repercussions.

[soren]

WTP-GC wrote:

Ralph Cramden wrote:

Lantley wrote:
Ralph Cramden wrote:

we couldn't get a very certain power company (public utility) to return our phone calls or emails. So we sent them an email (copied everyone) and told them we were going to dig right next to their primary pole and that since no one would advise us, we couldn't guarnatee that the pole wouldn't fall over. Within minutes, we got a phone call from an upper level supervisor.

LOL, that brings me back to the start of my career, in the 80s. Im a helper for a very "interesting" small time contractor. We were rebuilding a brick row home, in an old northeastern city. We had installed a new electrical service, had it inspected, and were waiting for the utility to install a meter, so we could work without running a genny and enraging the neighbors. Showing up to put the meter in was apparently something that the utility had little interest in. One day my boss had enough. He cut some 1/2" copper tubing, smashed it flat, and stuffed it into the blade holders where the meter should be. He then called the electric company and with a fake, old German accent, says, " Zis, is zee plumber. I have fixed the meter box, and zee power is on, no need for to send your donkies here to put zee meter in. Ya, it's goot, zee power is on". I can hear the customer service rep. absolutely losing her mind, on the other end of the conversation, and I'm trying hard not to LOL. By the end of the day, the new meter was in place, and a lineman is walking around, with a piece of smashed copper in his hand looking for an imaginary old German plumber, who needs a talking to, about safety.

[2012Coleman]

So had the reviewer experienced more corporal punishment growing up, they would have realized the incident could have been their own fault, and therefore written a more positive review?

[Lantley]

Bobbo wrote:

seagrace wrote:
"Spanking done with vengeance or spite is not discipline. Spanking done out of love, while perhaps more painful to the parent, is not abuse"

wrong. Spanking teaches a child that if you want to force someone to comply to your will, just hit them.

You may think that because you are a mature adult, you can administer this discipline without being angry, but that is a ridiculous assertion. You spank because you are angry that your child is misbehaving. That is all. Own it.

This attitude is a very large part of why today's society takes no responsibility for whatever they do. Growing up, I learned, shall we say, "instant tactile feedback." Of my 5 kids, 2 of them required "instant tactile feedback," but the other 3 did not. The ones who needed it got it. Neither of them grew up thinking it was OK to hit other people. They all, also, take responsibility when they do something wrong. Standing in the corner, writing lines, losing TV for the night, just don't carry the immediate repercussion that is needed for a child to learn.

Agreed.It is a quick lesson in right and wrong. No other reasoning / analysis required.

[Bobbo]

seagrace wrote:
"Spanking done with vengeance or spite is not discipline. Spanking done out of love, while perhaps more painful to the parent, is not abuse"

wrong. Spanking teaches a child that if you want to force someone to comply to your will, just hit them.

You may think that because you are a mature adult, you can administer this discipline without being angry, but that is a ridiculous assertion. You spank because you are angry that your child is misbehaving. That is all. Own it.

This attitude is a very large part of why today's society takes no responsibility for whatever they do. Growing up, I learned, shall we say, "instant tactile feedback." Of my 5 kids, 2 of them required "instant tactile feedback," but the other 3 did not. The ones who needed it got it. Neither of them grew up thinking it was OK to hit other people. They all, also, take responsibility when they do something wrong. Standing in the corner, writing lines, losing TV for the night, just don't carry the immediate repercussion that is needed for a child to learn.

[seagrace]

"Spanking done with vengeance or spite is not discipline. Spanking done out of love, while perhaps more painful to the parent, is not abuse"

wrong. Spanking teaches a child that if you want to force someone to comply to your will, just hit them.

You may think that because you are a mature adult, you can administer this discipline without being angry, but that is a ridiculous assertion. You spank because you are angry that your child is misbehaving. That is all. Own it.

[WTP-GC]

Ralph Cramden wrote:

Lantley wrote:
Ralph Cramden wrote:

I have sat patiently by and watched the millennial and X gens come into the commercial construction industry as they graduated college, and took over management positions from the old school people. One thing most of them have in common is a distinct lack of having a set of stones for any conversation, either face to face or on the phone, when it comes to business dealings. If it's the slightest bit confrontational forget it. Now they have a large set of stones when it's an email, but they melt in a face to face conversation. And if you leave a voicemail over an issue that does not benefit their position in some way, most likely you'll never get a return call. That's the rule more than the exception IME.

THat's a fine observation. But when you started there was no email or voice mail.Everything was done face to face.
Your like a cowboy stating that these cars are whizzing around too fast. You want your horse back.
If you had Email available I imagine you would treat it much like everyone does today!
Are behavior is not unique.It did not form from thin air. It evolves from previous generations.

I want my horse back ? LOL......

I use email every day in a construction or business setting and have done so since the mid 90's. I probably recieved 250 yesterday and sent close to 100. You missed the point. Email is not a replacement for a good old fashioned conversation, especially where problems or issues are concerned. When the horse I am wanting walks on to a jobsite and will not move out of the way, I bet I could get it out of there a lot quicker than sending an email. That email then gets forwarded around for two days with everybody and their brother added or copied, and nobody has yet to make a decision to pull out the Glock and let the horse have it in the noggin.

If some of the current crop of people in the industry spent as much time talking about solving a problem, as they do sending emails around and figuring out who they can blame the problem on and then backcharge them for it, they would not have had the problem to begin with.

Anytime I've ever had to deal with a bad situation with a sub or vendor in which we had to get a lawyer involved (less than handful of times in 15+ years), one of the first questions always is "did you put it in writing". Hard to put a verbal interaction into writing. Now on the other hand, we might have a conversation prior to or shortly after an email just to discuss it. But since this perceived indirect form of communication goes both ways, sometimes you have to send an email or leave a salty voicemail in order to illicit a phone call. For example, we couldn't get a very certain power company (public utility) to return our phone calls or emails. So we sent them an email (copied everyone) and told them we were going to dig right next to their primary pole and that since no one would advise us, we couldn't guarnatee that the pole wouldn't fall over. Within minutes, we got a phone call from an upper level supervisor.

[Lantley]

Ralph Cramden wrote:

Lantley wrote:
Ralph Cramden wrote:

I have sat patiently by and watched the millennial and X gens come into the commercial construction industry as they graduated college, and took over management positions from the old school people. One thing most of them have in common is a distinct lack of having a set of stones for any conversation, either face to face or on the phone, when it comes to business dealings. If it's the slightest bit confrontational forget it. Now they have a large set of stones when it's an email, but they melt in a face to face conversation. And if you leave a voicemail over an issue that does not benefit their position in some way, most likely you'll never get a return call. That's the rule more than the exception IME.

THat's a fine observation. But when you started there was no email or voice mail.Everything was done face to face.
Your like a cowboy stating that these cars are whizzing around too fast. You want your horse back.
If you had Email available I imagine you would treat it much like everyone does today!
Are behavior is not unique.It did not form from thin air. It evolves from previous generations.

I want my horse back ? LOL......

I use email every day in a construction or business setting and have done so since the mid 90's. I probably recieved 250 yesterday and sent close to 100. You missed the point. Email is not a replacement for a good old fashioned conversation, especially where problems or issues are concerned. When the horse I am wanting walks on to a jobsite and will not move out of the way, I bet I could get it out of there a lot quicker than sending an email. That email then gets forwarded around for two days with everybody and their brother added or copied, and nobody has yet to make a decision to pull out the Glock and let the horse have it in the noggin.

If some of the current crop of people in the industry spent as much time talking about solving a problem, as they do sending emails around and figuring out who they can blame the problem on and then backcharge them for it, they would not have had the problem to begin with.

And this scenario is created by millenials?
I don't dispute any of the inefficiencies you refer to. But implying the younger generations are somehow the only one's misusing Email is silly old man talk!;)

[Ralph_Cramden]

Lantley wrote:
Ralph Cramden wrote:

I have sat patiently by and watched the millennial and X gens come into the commercial construction industry as they graduated college, and took over management positions from the old school people. One thing most of them have in common is a distinct lack of having a set of stones for any conversation, either face to face or on the phone, when it comes to business dealings. If it's the slightest bit confrontational forget it. Now they have a large set of stones when it's an email, but they melt in a face to face conversation. And if you leave a voicemail over an issue that does not benefit their position in some way, most likely you'll never get a return call. That's the rule more than the exception IME.

THat's a fine observation. But when you started there was no email or voice mail.Everything was done face to face.
Your like a cowboy stating that these cars are whizzing around too fast. You want your horse back.
If you had Email available I imagine you would treat it much like everyone does today!
Are behavior is not unique.It did not form from thin air. It evolves from previous generations.

I want my horse back ? LOL......

I use email every day in a construction or business setting and have done so since the mid 90's. I probably recieved 250 yesterday and sent close to 100. You missed the point. Email is not a replacement for a good old fashioned conversation, especially where problems or issues are concerned. When the horse I am wanting walks on to a jobsite and will not move out of the way, I bet I could get it out of there a lot quicker than sending an email. That email then gets forwarded around for two days with everybody and their brother added or copied, and nobody has yet to make a decision to pull out the Glock and let the horse have it in the noggin.

If some of the current crop of people in the industry spent as much time talking about solving a problem, as they do sending emails around and figuring out who they can blame the problem on and then backcharge them for it, they would not have had the problem to begin with.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

westernrvparkowner wrote:
Recent review of Lazy Days RV Park in Florida has the park getting a 1 out of 10. Reason, the reviewer broke their ankle.
Did they break their ankle because the park had carelessly left equipment laying around? No. Was the park at fault because a walkway, stairs or piece of recreational equipment failed? No. Was the floors in the office, store, laundry or bathhouses wet and slick from a spill? Nyet.
The failure of the park...Leaves on a hill BEHIND the reviewer's RV. The reviewer gave no reason why they felt they had to be climbing on the hill, but they apparently felt it was the park's fault that either the hill was there or that their trees drop leaves. And people wonder why there has to be signs everywhere warning people if you do something stupid you might get hurt.

New 2018 OSHA safety regulations pending:
Campers required to wear padded, fully encapsulated suits equipped with re-breather or self-contained air supply, and two-way communication monitored by park staff.

Rumor is: The state of MT has volunteered to be the first to implement and evaluate the system on a trial basis in state & private campgrounds.

~

[Lantley]

Ralph Cramden wrote:

I have sat patiently by and watched the millennial and X gens come into the commercial construction industry as they graduated college, and took over management positions from the old school people. One thing most of them have in common is a distinct lack of having a set of stones for any conversation, either face to face or on the phone, when it comes to business dealings. If it's the slightest bit confrontational forget it. Now they have a large set of stones when it's an email, but they melt in a face to face conversation. And if you leave a voicemail over an issue that does not benefit their position in some way, most likely you'll never get a return call. That's the rule more than the exception IME.

THat's a fine observation. But when you started there was no email or voice mail.Everything was done face to face.
Your like a cowboy stating that these cars are whizzing around too fast. You want your horse back.
If you had Email available I imagine you would treat it much like everyone does today!
Are behavior is not unique.It did not form from thin air. It evolves from previous generations.

[jplante4]

I didn't mean for my post to start a battle over corporal punishment. I just stated how it worked in my house. Was I better off than the kids who didn't get a smack in butt at all? Who knows. I don't think a "time out" is very effective either. In fact I think it's one of the most ridiculous things parents have come up with yet. It just sets them up for dealing with jail later in life.

[WTP-GC]

IndyCamp wrote:

jplante4 wrote:


My parents (in particular my mother) went by spare the rod and spoil the child. The only trophy I ever got was a welt across my backside.

Sorry, but I think that is equally ridiculous.

I was also beaten as a child as a means of punishment, but I never once put my hands on my son for anything other than a hug or high-five. He is one of the best behaved kids I have seen.

It is possible to raise responsible children without hitting/whipping them AND without giving excessive praise. There is a middle ground.

Never met someone who wasn't thoroughly disciplined as a child that turned out OK.

This is the more correct translation of the saying mentioned above:
Whoever spares the rod HATES their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.

In this wording, the term hate is synonymous with "enemy" or "foe". I do not desire my child to be my enemy, therefore they will be disciplined.

[WTP-GC]

Ralph Cramden wrote:
I have sat patiently by and watched the millennial and X gens come into the commercial construction industry as they graduated college, and took over management positions from the old school people. One thing most of them have in common is a distinct lack of having a set of stones for any conversation, either face to face or on the phone, when it comes to business dealings. If it's the slightest bit confrontational forget it. Now they have a large set of stones when it's an email, but they melt in a face to face conversation. And if you leave a voicemail over an issue that does not benefit their position in some way, most likely you'll never get a return call. That's the rule more than the exception IME.

Also in the construction industry and can partially attest to the accuracy of this. When I got in the business as a young fella, I didn't have enough knowledge or wisdom to fortify to my cahones enough to deal face-to-face or on the phone with difficult people. But the older I get, the more wisdom I gain, which means the better I feel and the more confident I become about my positions.

Now I still wont' reply directly to nasty emails or voicemails. Nothing is ever gained by getting into one of those matches where both folks get wet. Send me a nasty email today, then tomorrow I'll send you a reply that just simply reminds you of your contractual obligations. One thing that has changed since the previous generation was in the business is that EVERYTHING is in writing and lawyers always win. As a result, interactions have undergone a forced change in how they take place.

But every company still needs a few pitbulls that just love an argument. We have them and use them accordingly LOL