3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[houstonstroker]

Well to tell the truth I have not read all 43 pages of this thread, but I did read the first several pages when the thread started. I'm glad I did not let the naysayers talk me out of my Pep Boys 3500 watt Nikota Generator. We went to the races last weekend at Texas Motor Speedway. My buddy, my dad and myself all purchased the same generator. All three units worked great all weekend powering the air conditioners. I did not try to run the air and microwave at the same time but it ran everything I wanted it to.

[professor95]

what if the generators hot wire comes in contact with the rv's metal framework when you are driving on the road? ,,are the tires enough to act as a ground?

Normally, no. Tires are rubber (or a rubber compound). Rubber is an excellent electrical insulator.

[mustangman]

professor95 wrote:

what did that guy that died do wrong with his generator's ground?

I didn't mean to mislead anybody..... the guy who died in my example was not someone I know or a situation I actually knew about. It was a supposition to support an example.

As to what the guy in my example did wrong? He did not have a grounding connection from the RV to ground - thus, when the electrical fault occured that caused the "hot" side of the generator output to come in contact with the RV's metal framework, it was he that provided the final connection path to ground by touching the "hot" RV and ground at the same time. In theory, he would have had the full voltage and amperage of the generator going through his body. Be aware that it only takes a few milliampres of current flowing through the SA node of the heart to disrupt the electrical rhythm that we depend upon for life. This disruption causes the heart to behave like a bowl of Jello and we will die in about 6 minutes unless the heart rhythm can be restored.

I do have a true first hand experience supported story about a guy who was killed like this - but I will spare you the details. The majority of my knowledge on this subject comes from the days I was a Cardiac Tech and EMT-A Instructor running with my local EMS unit.

When you are connected to shore or park power, your RV is grounded through the electrical cord. When you are using a generator, you have no physical connection to ground unless you create one.

thanks Professor for getting back,scary stuff,i understand it better
now,,,what if the generators hot wire comes in contact with the rv's metal framework when you are driving on the road? ,,are the tires enough to act as a ground?

[mavapa]

Jon from Wildfire e-mailed me about the Wildfire 3000. He thinks the full 3000W is not available from a single outlet because they are 15 amp outlets. I am not sure that fully answers the question; maybe a simple mod could provide the full output. Youth4him, maybe you can answer it when you get yours.

[hgarraway]

This is a true grounding story but not exactly related to grounding a Chinese (or any origin) RV genset. It happened to my wife and me on April 10 while returning from a trip to Gulf Shores AL. Traveling on Highway 63 just north of Moss Point MS we crossed a railroad track with a bad bump. We decided to stop and check out our 33RLBS Cedar Creek we were towing to see if all was secure inside. I pulled over at the first available paved shoulder and Jo Ann (my wife) stepped out of the truck. When she reached to shut the door she was 'stung' by what seemed to be a static charge as happens on a cool dry day. She then went back to the trailer and grabbed the steps and was SHOCKED. She ran back to the cab and said turn off the truck something's wrong. I did, she started to get in, touched the door and was shocked again. I got out with tennis shoes on and felt nothing...until my bare legs touched the wet grass on the shoulder. It felt like fire ants or yellowjackets just starting to do their stuff.

So what was it?

I looked up and we were directly under a main power line coming from a Mississippi Power Company generating plant less than a mile away.

Now it's common knowledge in Mississippi that this is how UFO's refuel but it was quite an experience for us. The 500 kva line was charging our 'floating' rig and charging us up or discharging through us every time we touched the rig. When I was getting bit it was after I had touched the rig and backed into the grass. We jumped in my open door and drove away. When I cranked the truck the digital display displayed randomly for a moment then stabled down.

A call later to the plant confirmed what I thought had happened. The spokesman said that they always send new employees out to a truck parked under the main to get a tool and watched as they jumped.

Be careful where you park. Could be interesting with a pacemaker.

Hugh

p.s. love my ELM 3000 🙂 Thanks prof and other contributors

[professor95]

what did that guy that died do wrong with his generator's ground?

I didn't mean to mislead anybody..... the guy who died in my example was not someone I know or a situation I actually knew about. It was a supposition to support an example.

As to what the guy in my example did wrong? He did not have a grounding connection from the RV to ground - thus, when the electrical fault occured that caused the "hot" side of the generator output to come in contact with the RV's metal framework, it was he that provided the final connection path to ground by touching the "hot" RV and ground at the same time. In theory, he would have had the full voltage and amperage of the generator going through his body. Be aware that it only takes a few milliampres of current flowing through the SA node of the heart to disrupt the electrical rhythm that we depend upon for life. This disruption causes the heart to behave like a bowl of Jello and we will die in about 6 minutes unless the heart rhythm can be restored.

I do have a true first hand experience supported story about a guy who was killed like this - but I will spare you the details. The majority of my knowledge on this subject comes from the days I was a Cardiac Tech and EMT-A Instructor running with my local EMS unit.

When you are connected to shore or park power, your RV is grounded through the electrical cord. When you are using a generator, you have no physical connection to ground unless you create one.

[mustangman]

professor95 wrote:

have the RV electrical surge protector with GFI shown in this link:

http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm?deptID=&subOf=98,55&skunum=18337

Should that item protect me and the RV appliances provided I am using it on whatever source of power the RV is connected to, generator or shore power?

I have one of these as well. It is the 30 amp unit I spoke of that is around a $100.00.

Your device will protect you from a ground fault, or current in one of the two legs of the supply voltage that is greater than the other. I consider it a "MUST HAVE" item from an electrical safety standpoint in any RV.

But, when connected to a generator it does not provide a gounding connection unless the generator is bonded to earth ground. As long as the GFCI is operating properly, it would detect any leakage from an appliance through you to a ground, providing a level of protection otherwise not present. The key word here is "working properly". We both know that it is not a question of if the GFCI will fail or not, but when. Hopefully, it will give good protection for many years - but can we always be sure? For 100% safety, you still need the earth ground bonded to the generator frame and the RV frame in addition to the GFCI. That said, this is rarely ever done. The additional risks are minimal when using a GFCI in the suply line - but they are still there.

thanks Professor and everyone for the info,I need to learn about grounding the generator more,iam building an underbody box for the gen
,so the generators frame has to be grounded to the motorhomes chassis? forgive me I am new to this,what did that guy that died do wrong with his generator's ground?

[Pagoo1]

Went to Pep Boys last night and bought a Coleman Powermate Maxa 3000 OHV ER for $400. Claimed 3000w running/3750w surge. Hooked it up to the trailer and turned on the air conditioning full blast... worked fine. I'm not sure it would be up to running both the air and microwave, but I'll just be sure not to run both, and happily for the price I paid.

Only drawback is the unit's pretty loud, but I mostly got if for emergency situations. Last year's hurricanes here in florida blew the power twice.

Later!

[professor95]

That is the only thing holding e back i need to fire up my compressor and my 3550 barely does it(i have to manually rev it up a tad more)it will start the first time all by itself second time a little help

Your compressor may not be sufficiently unloading pressure from the compressor pump itself for a restart.

I had a similar problem on a no-longer-owned air compressor and solved it by installing a centrifugal unloader purchased from WW Grainger in the manifold between the pump and tank. Without any pressure in the manifold, the motor would easily start and come up to operational speed without tripping the breader. You may also need to increase the size of the manifold (just a piece of capped off pipe tee'd in the line) so the pump will make a few more revolutions before resistance from pressure counteracts the electric motor's efforts to reach the run state.

[MrWizard]

maybe a hard-start boost kit for the compressor ? would help

[77charger]

I am thinking of getting rid of my troybilt 3550 to get one of these chinese gens just cause it is quiter and i know it works good.A guy at work was going to get a coleman i told him go to pep boys get one of the 300 dollar specials he did so and we were all amzed by how quiet it was(for a 300.00 gen)that wasnt a "major brand"and how well it worked his came with the wheel kit too his is the jung dong one.It almost fired up a 6hp air compressor too.

That is the only thing holding e back i need to fire up my compressor and my 3550 barely does it(i have to manually rev it up a tad more)it will start the first time all by itself second time a little help

[professor95]

how does this Gen from Nikota compare to the elim 3000 with noise levels?value? does anyone else recommend it,,where can i find a elim 3000 or similar model? thanks

The noise level for the Nikota should essentially be the same as the ELM3000 since it has a similar design engine and muffler.

At $299 for a product with no warranty and unsure parts availability my reaction is the Nikota is not a good buy. Also, the Nikota will only provide a maximum of 13 amps on each of the two duplex outlet sockets. A forum contributor has successfully rewired the generator to provide the full 26 amps to one outlet - but that may be more complex than some owners feel comfortable doing. I posted the drawing on the wiring changes on Saturday.

The ELM3000 is made by Jiang Dong, Ltd. in China. It is imported and sold under numerous names like Powerwise, Chicago Electric, and Wildfire to name a few. Jiang Dong generators are reported to be available at Parts America, Checkers Auto, Harbor Freight, Cummings' and Homier Tools and Internet sites listed over the past few days in this forum. There are some differences between the different importer's models - some have 220, some do not. Others have a 12 volt DC output - others do not. But, all apparently will provide the full rated output to ONE 110 volt outlet - which is important for RV use. Also, all appear to have the same Honda GX engine clone and the massive muffler that meets the NPS noise standard of 67dB at 7 meters (about 23 feet).

There are other brands, like Champion, that are made by a different Chi...

[professor95]

Prof,
Would pounding a 8" tent stake in the ground then removing it and pour some water in the hole then pound the stake back in work for grounding the Generator? Sounds like it would. You would have 8" of metal in wet ground connected with a wire to the ground post on the generator.

Well, it may be better than nothing - but it is not adequate. You need more than a wet spot on the ground, you need wet earth all around. How far is around? Don't know exactly, but we usually measure the distance in depth to where moist earth is found. Also, according to my reference sources, you need a minimum of 20 square inces of contact area to qualify as a ground. I doubt that a tent stake would give 20 square inches of surface contact.

On the generator question - yes, it sounds like your unit is comparable to the ELM3000.

[kabb]

Hi Rick,

The Company is "Coast to Coast"
Cell 562 449-8565
Office 714 995-5014 (this one will go to cell if he's not there)
5931 Lakeshore Dr. Cypress, CA 90630
His name is Harris a real nice guy. Tell him I said so.
$225 cash and no tax. I asked about warranty and he said no problem just bring it back.

-Bob

[Stripes]

RadioNeal wrote:
My local Pep Boys circular is again showing the Nikota 3500 Watt 6.5HP generator on sale for $299.00 at stores in my area. (Broward and Palm Beach Counties in Sunny South Florida.)

Pep Boys ad for Nikota 3,500 Watt Generator

If you click on the photo in the ad, the unit clearly says 5.5HP, but the ad copy says 6.5HP.

If I get the time, I'll drive over and have a look.

Cheers!

I needed a new manual so I sent email to Nikota Support and below was the reply I received today...
In addition, the one pictured here has only one breaker switch and the one I have has two. Hmmm changes from a defunct company? Get the ELM3000 if you can find one. Good Luck!

I need to inform you that Nikota USA is no longer in business.
American Power Products has purchased their assets and the right to sell the
same or similar products bearing the "Nikota" name and its subsidiary
brands. (Panterra, Shop Source, Bench Pro etc.). Nearly all inventory
was liquidated via auction; including returned items and most of the
scooter, dirt bike, ATV, tools and most parts for all of the listed items.
Currently a parts inventory is being conducted in order to inform
ourselves, and customers what will be available initially as replacement
parts(mostly Panterra parts). The selection will be limited at first, but
may grow as time goes on. Parts should be available for purchase
within a couple of weeks. Unfortunately, Nikota's warranty will not be
honored by American Power Products. And we can’t guarantee all the parts
for all the products.

Please forward me your name and contact information to:
ealcazar@app-nikota.com Also include a brief description of model and
part.

If NikotaUSA has any unpaid debts or open accounts with you. Please
contact:

New York Credit
310-827-0076
www.nycreditinc.com


----- Original Message -----
From: Clay Davis
To: support@nikota.com
Sent: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 07:05:54 -0700
Subject: Nikota 3500W generator


> I have misplaced the manual for my generator and need a replacement.
Is this
> available online or can you email it to me. I specifically need the
wiring
> diagram for this genset.
>
> Thank you in advance.