3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[bobgay]

I got it working. I think the problem all along was the green wire had come unclipped from the AC Motor Capacitor. I think the green and yellow wire was a ground wire running from the 110v receptacle to the ground. They were using as a ground one of the bolts that attaches the panel holding the receptacle. It apparently came loose when I removed the panel. I attached the green wire to the capacitor and the green and yellow wire back to the panel bolt, and it seems to be working fine. Thanks to all for the help.
Bob

[LittleBill]

snap a picture thats about the only way we could help, unless u ask the guyz that switched out the recipticles, they would know

[guy48065]

In the schematic for the Wen PowerPro 3500:
http://www.y4hdesigns.com/images/PP3500schem.jpg
The Green/Yellow wire is shown only going from the chassis to the AC outlet(s). The little clip you describe sounds like what's sometimes used to connect a ground wire to the edge of an outlet box...no screws needed. Maybe it was pinched onto an exposed edge of the frame tubing or the panel where the breakers & outlets are mounted??

bobgay wrote:
TubaPete-The Green and Yellow wire is heavier than the green wire. Because of the type of fitting on the end of the green wire, it couldn't attach to the 110 volt receptacle. The green and yellow wire does have the type of connection that would fit on the 110 volt receptacle that now has nothing attached. Am I making sense?
Bob

[cufor98]

youth4him wrote:
cufor98:

I'm not 100% sure, but my mind was working on the 240 safe upper limit range. I still haven't switched to synthetic, but I'm pretty sure that will help by 5-10 degrees as well.

Thanks, that's higher than I thought. I can't find temp. specs anywhere in the book.

[bobgay]

TubaPete-The Green and Yellow wire is heavier than the green wire. Because of the type of fitting on the end of the green wire, it couldn't attach to the 110 volt receptacle. The green and yellow wire does have the type of connection that would fit on the 110 volt receptacle that now has nothing attached. Am I making sense?
Bob

[TubaPete]

Green wires are usually ground wires. As is the ourboard terminal on the duplex, usually. I don't know that the ground being loose would explain no power, though. Don't know about the green and yellow wire.

Are the two wires the same thickness? Is they are noticably different, the the thick one would more likely go to the duplex with the thin one going to the black box. It's hard to tell without actually seeing anything.

[bobgay]

I removed the front panel and found 2 unattached wires. One green wire with a clip-type fastener appears to go to a little black box labeled AC Motor capacitor. The other is a green and yellow wire with a screw-type connector. I don't see where it should attach, but I noticed that there was no wire attached to the lower right (outboard) terminal of the 110 volt receptacle. I'm afraid to attach it there without knowing. Anybody know?
Bob

[bobgay]

Thanks Dean. I'll see if I can see anything loose.
Bob

[deanathpc]

bobgay wrote:
Unpacked the ELM3000 I bought over E-Bay and fired it up this morning. Engine runs fine, but I am not getting any electricity. I've tried it with each circuit breaker switch in the on position and with both on, but the voltage meter shows zero (on 110 or 240), and it will not even run a small fan I plugged in.
With the selector switch in the 220 position the needle twitches a little, but on 110 it is flat dead. Am I forgetting something? The 110 volt outlet, by the way, is polarized. I hope I haven't bought a $360 boat anchor. I'd appreciate any ideas.
Bob

Got a knock from E-bay some time back... Make sure all the wires are connected to everything.. When I got mine some were loose... May not be the solution for you but it's a start... would be a bummer if it was a boat anchor....

[systemssafety]

Just a quick question. Has anyone purchased one of the JD3500 generators from Ultra Tools and Equipment Company? Their on-line specs show it to produce 120 VAC 3500 Watts and 4340 Watts surge. They also state that it has two 30 amp 120 V Std. outlets. If true, it sounds like an ideal unit for a TT or Fith-wheel.

Any comments?

[bobgay]

Unpacked the ELM3000 I bought over E-Bay and fired it up this morning. Engine runs fine, but I am not getting any electricity. I've tried it with each circuit breaker switch in the on position and with both on, but the voltage meter shows zero (on 110 or 240), and it will not even run a small fan I plugged in.
With the selector switch in the 220 position the needle twitches a little, but on 110 it is flat dead. Am I forgetting something? The 110 volt outlet, by the way, is polarized. I hope I haven't bought a $360 boat anchor. I'd appreciate any ideas.
Bob

[youth4him]

cufor98:

I'm not 100% sure, but my mind was working on the 240 safe upper limit range. I still haven't switched to synthetic, but I'm pretty sure that will help by 5-10 degrees as well.

[bobgay]

Brandyspaw, I couldn't find them near me, so I bought one off E-Bay. With shipping it ran about $365. It just came yesterday and was well packaged and appears to be in perfect shape. Plan to put in some gas and oil and give it a try this morning.
Edit note-on closer inspection the top protective frame bars that run across the top of the unit are slightly bent, but not enough to contact the gas tank.

[brandyspaw]

First, I've been following this thread since its inception and I
want to thank everyone for all the good info thats been provided.

My question, does there seem to be very few of these types of
generators available at Pepboys? It also seems there are more
available at the stores back east than out west. I'd like to purchase
one but it seems the demand must be outstripping the supply.
Or is the very limited selection just at the stores in the Denver area and your Pepboys have these things in stock?

Thanks again,
Bill

[cufor98]

youth4him wrote:
For those of you that might be interested, I created a sound enclosure for the genset, which has worked quite well. I don't have a meter, so just have to say it's substantially quiter than out of the box.

Thermal measurements indicate without the box, 115 degrees, with the box, about 150 or so with IR temp at the block on various places. This is still way within the operating limits.

If you have questions, please ask, if you want to tell me I'm an idiot, keep it to yourself, I'm very familiar with my own inadequacies. :B

Sound Abatement Enclosure

Thanks for sharing your results. I built one similar. It was expensive at around $15:W I have about 3" of space on the front and back and about 4" on either side. I left about 1.5" around the bottom because it will be in grass most of the time. I mounted the fan on the ceiling over the muffler. I used ceiling tile as insulation. I may, scratch that - WILL, replace it with something that doesn't itch. My question is what is the operating temp. range on these gensets? With an IR gun I get about 160F on the block in ambient conditions (85F) with no box. With the box on, I get close to 190F. I haven't properly extended the muffler pipe yet which should help. I just stuck a pipe up against it temporarily but it shouldn't be too much different. I'm concerned about temp. This football season it will be around 95F in Clemson, SC at the start of the season. After messing with the ceiling tile, I'm not so sure a box couldn't be made with just that, or make some type of insulation tent. It would be a lot lighter.