3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[cecilpwv]

MrWizard, thank you! - for the prompt reply and perfectly clear directions. I'll post my results when I complete this job.

[Elda]

VicT,

Holy smokes it sounds like you had it bad.

I also had trouble with the first shipment of my ELM3600, which I bought through their website, but it was clearly the fault of UPS and I had send it back for a new replacement.

My neighbor say the UPS delivery man deliver my generator the first time. The UPS guy parked in my driveway and tossed the box with the generator in it out of the back of the truck onto the concrete driveway. Well, as you can imagine, anything that weighs 100 pounds and gets tossed onto a concrete driveway, it was severely damaged.

As for the NON-DAMAGED unit that was sent the second time, so far i like it.

I also really like the fact it has wheels and handles to make it easy to role around. It never fails that when I need to move heavy things I can never find help and thus have to move it by myself.

So, to all units with wheels, two thumbs up.

[presp]

Last Sunday I got a Nikota 3500W genset (JF200 eng)
with no warranty, but new, for only $150.
At such a good price I had to get it.
(@SoCal computer swap meet)

As soon as we got home I had to check it for proper operation.
(actually, he gave me a same 1-day warranty)

The air cleaner seems generous in area and the
muffler is good sized and relatively quiet.
At least it looked good to me and for the price
its almost unbelieveable.

Next came an actual load test.
Added a gallon of 87octane and drained out the
excessive oil in the crankcase.

It started 2nd pull and seemed to hum away ok.
(quieter than I expected but no match for the
Honda EU 3000 -and cost 10 times more)

This unit is wired for (2) 120v receps in parallel.
So we put a 1500w heater into each socket.
It seemed to be happy with them, but, of course,
working harder. Still maintained about 116vac
and 60-61cps with that 3000w load.

I did not run it long that way.
Instead, opted to give it a more humane breakin.
With about 1 gallon of gas left in the tank
I left it to run until it was out of gas.
Took about 3.5hrs to use that up @no load.

Since this is just for emergency power, when
the Ken Lay types decide to screw Californians
again on power, at least
I won't be without lights and cooling (evap)! 🙂

I was told that the reason these were so cheap
was they (about 18 of 'em) were bought from
auction when Nikota closed up shop.

Thanks to all for the informative posts on this genset.
Pres

[MrWizard]

cecilpwv wrote:
I would like to rewire my PowerPro 3500 per MrWizard's instructions, but I am not clear on the instructions (page 48 of this thread). After splitting the white and red common wires and connecting them to brown abd blue, respectively, what else needs to be done? Referring to the schematic (http://www.y4hdesigns.com/images/PP3500schem.jpg), surely I need to disconnect the red wire from the neutral side of the 120 plug. Do I then connect the white/blue combo there? That strikes me as very wrong. Or does nothing now connect to the common side? If so, where does the white/blue wire go?

MrWizard also said to disconnect the 240 outlet and replace it with a 120 outlet, Could I not just disconnect it entirely? I would be satisfied with only one outlet (the tech rep said it is 30amp), and I would expect the job would be easier to accomplish.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I don't know much about electricity, but I know enough not to attempt a job like this without detailed instructions to follow.

per the drawing

the red and brown become the hot/black

the blue & white become the neutral/ WHITE

the blue has to be removed from the circuit breaker and connected to the white and then connected to the plug

the red needs to be connected to the brown

the 2 circuit breakers should be connected parallel or replaced with a larger amp breaker

red*brw going into the top of the breakers and comming out the bottom to be connected to the hot side of the plug

remember this is going to supply 120 volts across the combined windings but it will NOT read 120 to ground.

in this schematic there is NO center tap ground

voltage to ground from either side will be aprox 60 volts

frame grounding a portable GENERATOR to EARTH ground ( driven ground rod ) NOT chassis ground is always a good idea

yes you can just remove the 230 volt twist lock and not use the space.

[77charger]

Barton Family wrote:

With what you folks are finding out with your gensets, is there enough of a noise reduction with the Honda Clones to try and sell my Generac and purchase one of these other models? What is the average distance you are taking your sound measurements at?

W

I did that bought a new chinese gen set but cant even give away my 3600 watt troy bilt gen set.I used it this weekend for the first time at the beach i put the new gen in the back of my truck and ran it there.Was alot quiter than the previous troy bilt with the avg outdoor noise you couldnt hear it 20 ft away walking towards the truck little noise from the back side but quiet ib the trailer.

[cecilpwv]

I would like to rewire my PowerPro 3500 per MrWizard's instructions, but I am not clear on the instructions (page 48 of this thread). After splitting the white and red common wires and connecting them to brown abd blue, respectively, what else needs to be done? Referring to the schematic (http://www.y4hdesigns.com/images/PP3500schem.jpg), surely I need to disconnect the red wire from the neutral side of the 120 plug. Do I then connect the white/blue combo there? That strikes me as very wrong. Or does nothing now connect to the common side? If so, where does the white/blue wire go?

MrWizard also said to disconnect the 240 outlet and replace it with a 120 outlet, Could I not just disconnect it entirely? I would be satisfied with only one outlet (the tech rep said it is 30amp), and I would expect the job would be easier to accomplish.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I don't know much about electricity, but I know enough not to attempt a job like this without detailed instructions to follow.

[Dave___Debbie_S]

after weeks of reading this forum, I ordered the ELIM 3000, and although its still pretty new, i'm very pleased with it. I can't measure the noise, but it seems quiet enough (and this after using a Onan in an expensive motor home). And, thanks to the "Professor," I purchased the ELIM because you can get the full output out of one of the 20 amp 110 outlets. No problem running my a/c, lights, and once i also used the coffee pot.

[Barton_Family]

I have finally read through virtually all of the posts on the 88 pages! Whew! Thanks to you all for your input as this is so helpful. Professor, you have educated another student, and I mean that seriously. Thank you!

I bought a Generac 4000XL when we bought our Popup in 1999. I have used it twice. It has run a max of 5 hours! Why? Because of complaints from others over the noise. According to Camping World (who suggested I purchase this unit as being the quietest at the size I needed to run the A/C and so on)the noise rating is 86 dB at 3.5 feet and 73 dB at 23.5 feet. I paid about $700 at Home Depot for this thing and the price for the same unit today remains largely unchanged. Camping World was about $200 more, plus shipping.

With what you folks are finding out with your gensets, is there enough of a noise reduction with the Honda Clones to try and sell my Generac and purchase one of these other models? What is the average distance you are taking your sound measurements at?

We now have an older Lance truck camper and miss the convenience of the internal genset we had in our old Class C. I either need to build a box for the Generac and/or purchase one of the Chinese gensets so that we aren't "boo-ed" out of the campground.

Last question, on my Generac, we rigged up an adapter so that we could use the NEMA 30 amp plug. Is this not possible with the Chinese gensets you are using?

Thanks Again for your input!

[NM_Desert_Rat]

Headhunter,

I spoke with the PowerPro rep also and hung up remembering that each breaker is 13A, and that to get full power you needed to wire the windings an parallel externally, using leads from each plug. He couldn't be specific, citing liability reasons. However, it doesn't look like this will work, based on reading many previous posts, without also making some internal mods so that the polarity of the windings can be reversed before making them parallel.

Still have not seen anyone post who has actually modified this generator to using both windings in parallel.

A data point, ran my PP3500 for a couple of hours this weekend at 7500 ft and probably 90F, used the AC without a problem. At home, have run it for probably 45min with AC and MW, 5000F, 90F+. Both cases using the 110 plug with a 30A adapter. I have to believe that the AC is drawing more than 13A.

Desert

[cecilpwv]

Thanks, Al in Va, for the quick reply. Based upon your advice I decided not to buy the PowerPro, then changed my mind after seeing the link Dark Green posted and the positive testimony from wildnfree, captron, and jimpcon. I tried the generator today. AC runs fine, but the circuit breaker tripped when I added the microwave. I can live with this, but I am concerned that the low power my eventually harm my AC. It scares me, but I'll probably try the re-wire job.

I'm keeping the genset because with 12v output, low oil shutoff, and less weight (99 lbs), it's a heck of a deal at $319+tax, compared with the ELM3000L at $459+shipping.

[headhunter37]

I went and picked up the 3500 Power-pro last night from Pep-Boys.

Went home put gas and oil in it. Started on the first pull, purrs like a kitten. Surprised me that it was in fact not as loud as I thought! I had it 10 ft from the trailer on the backside and I could sit under the awning on the other side and have a normal conversation.

I plugged in using my standard 30a to 15amp adapter and plugged into the household 120 on the gen.

Fired up the AC with outside air at 95 degrees no problem; in just under 2 hours the inside of the 30ft Cougar fiver was 73 degrees. The AC was pushing air out around 40 degrees.

It did also run my microwave with the AC running but it struggled. It made water hot in 60 seconds in the mic. Not a biggie for me though I'll only run one at a time. AC or Microwave.

With the AC running the plugs in the fiver all had 108.5-111 volts. So it seems to be within the 10% voltage drop.

I talked to a guy at Powerpro this morning and he said the 120v only provides around 13amps? Is this true? He also stated that I could use the 4 prong twist lock and build my own adapter and the 240v plug in would give more like 23-25amps.

Can anyone point me to the thread about how to build your own adapter for the twist lock?

Thumbs up on the Power-pro; hope it lasts a few years though 🙂

[jimpcon]

Capt-Ron wrote:

wildnfree wrote:
My PowerPro 3500 powers my airconditioner and microwave and converter all at the same time, no problem, with voltage within specification (10% drop) with the single 120 outlet.

So did mine, plus the refer.

Capt Ron

I didnt have a voltage meter at the time but with the Powerpro, all at once I had the AC, refer, converter, TV and DVD player on. I could also brew a pot of coffee with these appliances on too. I'll admit, it did seem to struggle a bit when making the coffee but after the initial surge it was A-OK!!

When i first got the genny, I tried it with the AC, refer, converter and MW(cup of H2O) and no problems. I havent really used the MW yet but with the proper management of other appliances, its my feeling that the PowerPro can handle it with no problem.

Jim

[Capt-Ron]

wildnfree wrote:
My PowerPro 3500 powers my airconditioner and microwave and converter all at the same time, no problem, with voltage within specification (10% drop) with the single 120 outlet.

So did mine, plus the refer.

Capt Ron

[wildnfree]

My PowerPro 3500 powers my airconditioner and microwave and converter all at the same time, no problem, with voltage within specification (10% drop) with the single 120 outlet.

[Dark_Green_HD_D]

Hey folks check out this link. http://utterpower.com/genhead.htm This will anwser & guide you in identifing & modifying your generator head to take full advantage of you single phase center tapped genset. This is so you can get 30amps out of you generator