3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Barton_Family]

TubaPete wrote:
Good work fellas. Keep it up. I look forward to reading another 105 pages of contributions.

I wholeheartedly agree! What a great compilation of information! Not just "this is what happened with me" input but also a lot of research and technical input as well. Many heartfelt thanks to everyone who has contributed. Heck, when even a vendor joins in, you know you have something worthwhile. Thanks to all!

[TubaPete]

Tangentially off topic, sort of, but:

Considering how some topics die quickly in off topic flame wars, persons who have contributed to this one should be commended for keeping it clean and productive for so long. I just came from another topic discussing how frequently moderators have to lock down a topic because it gets out of hand.

Good work fellas. Keep it up. I look forward to reading another 105 pages of contributions.

[toprudder]

Barton Family wrote:
The Honda EU3000IS is rated at 59db at full load. A difference of 5db less than the Kipor 3500ti. From what you guys have seen "real world" how much of an increase in noise is this really? We've all seen that part of the thread where 3db is twice the noise to the human ear or however it was phrased.

A drop in 6dB is equivalent to doubling the distance. If the EU3000IS is 59dB at 7 meters, you would have to move the Kipor to 12.5 meters to get down to the same noise level.

[Barton_Family]

bassman1 wrote:
Barton family, I would not spend 1100.00 without trying it first the kipor is 64db at full load.I would not run at 64db in a public camp but I have my trailer on private land. I plan to sell the 4000xl for 300 to 400 $

The Honda EU3000IS is rated at 59db at full load. A difference of 5db less than the Kipor 3500ti. From what you guys have seen "real world" how much of an increase in noise is this really? We've all seen that part of the thread where 3db is twice the noise to the human ear or however it was phrased. But if anyone has heard the real difference between these two units, or for that matter, between any of the Chinese gensets and other brands, with the same variation in noise output rating, how much of a real difference is there? My Generac 4000XL is pretty loud. Not as loud as my 6.5 Briggs on the lawnmower, but still loud. And the lawnmower doesn't advertise as having a "sound-deadening intake silencer" and a " Super Silencer Muffler that Keeps noise to minimum levels". Still, a difference of 10db between the Kipor and the Generac I would think would be pretty noticable. Not sure of what reduction in noise I could expect between the Chinese gensets and the Generac. If it were just more quiet, the Generac 4000XL is really a quality unit and will run everything in the camper without having to rewire. But that does no good if it's too loud to use in the campground 😞

[Barton_Family]

John,

Thanks for the information and for clearing up the Elim product line for me. I appreciate your time and input.

Best Regards,
Ric Barton
Acworth, GA

[presp]

JPearcy wrote:
... To the best of my knowledge Launtop is the only manufacturer in China that can has been making units under ISO 9001 standards which have been able to pass CE, TUV, CSA, EC-Emission and EPA standards.... /quote]
I don't know about EU & others, but the important ones for N. America purchasers are apparently passed by JiangDong (JD).

From their website:
"And all JD engines are produced in manufacturing facilities that are certified to ISO9001 standards"

"JD engines meet current CARB and EPA standards"

(JD produces over 1 million engines/year. That's impressive)

http://www.jdshanghai.com/OurProduct.asp (aka. JiangDong)

[MrWizard]

bassman1 wrote:
John I just got a elm3600ss and tryed to hook my rv to 30amp socket but it kept triping the breaker, pluged it into 20amp socket and it worked great, but I dont want to overload socket

depending on the generator

that 30 amp socket is 230 volts..

your lucky the breaker tripped, and not fry anything in your camper

[presp]

jht wrote:
I recently purchased one of these Chinese gensets. I've noticed that there is a considerable amount of blowby (posiitive pressure with visible smoke & oily vapor) from the valve cover when I remove the breather line that goes from the valve cover to the air filter assy....

Probably not anything wrong with it. The "lubrication system" is the
archaic Briggs & Stratton type, no oil pump, just a blade extended
from the connecting rod cap that whacks the oil each revolution.
It creates pretty much of an oil fog throughout the engine's insides.
(kinda like you standing in some water and whacking it with a stick
to get wet)

To minimize the internal mess, its best to never overfill it and always use the proper weight of oil.
Note: You can't change the oil too frequently in this type of 'oil filterless' design.

That's one of the downsides of buying the cheapest generator, it has the cheapest oil system.

In spite of the above, give it a bit of tlc and it will likely run many hundreds of hours mostly troublefree.

However, if you are a full time RV'er, hundreds of hours could go by within a year.
For that scenario you need to spend a few thousand and get a genset with a real oil pump, oil filter, made with lots of ball/roller bearings and liquid cooled.

Enjoy,
Pres

[jht]

I recently purchased one of these Chinese gensets. I've noticed that there is a considerable amount of blowby (posiitive pressure with visible smoke & oily vapor) from the valve cover when I remove the breather line that goes from the valve cover to the air filter assy. Has anybody else noticed this, or removed the line to see how their engine is performing? I'm curious if I've got a defective engine - rings not seating properly, or this is common with this type of engine (JiangDong). I've got about 11 hrs on it & have taken my time breaking it in.

[bassman1]

John I just got a elm3600ss and tryed to hook my rv to 30amp socket but it kept triping the breaker, pluged it into 20amp socket and it worked great, but I dont want to overload socket

[Richie1]

I wish the Homier 4,000W generator had a 30 amp twist lock receptacle on it. Unfortunate because I'd most likely purchase it if it had. Then again, I'm sure UPS would destroy the thing during shipping anyway.

[pup]

The Homier unit has 2 25amp 120v outlets, at least that's what's stamped into them.....

[sidst]

Homier Generator specs from Homier Generator 4000watt Instruction Manual:

6.5 hp 3000 watt w/ peak surge of 4000w
Electronic Ignition, 4 cycle engine
Two pole single phase 60HZ
DC Output 12v @ 8.3amps
4 Gallon Fuel Capacity
7.8 hours continuous run time
24.25 x 17.25 x 18 inches dimensions
Weight 101 lbs

Power output 120 volts at 25 amps
2 120 volt single household type receptacles(unsure if they are rated for 15 or 20 amps each)

[presp]

pup wrote:
This unit from Homier Generator

I'm impressed with Hornier (p/n:03237) 4kw Gen at only $229.99.
Even more impressed with its specs:
Like: "AC Output: 12V, 4000W Peak"!

Lets see, that means over 300 amps!!
(needs serious plugs & cabling- like 0000 size?)

Nobody provides less specs/details than Hornier.

At least, Pup says it works well.

[pup]

Here is what I know for sure. The PowerPro 3500 WILL have to be rewired in order to run everything. I have one, I rewired it and it is now fine. The rewire takes about five minutes if you stop for a break or two. It would not perform to its full power without the rewire.

This unit from Homier Generator
DOES NOT require a rewire. It works fine right out of the box. My parents have this unit and it runs everything in their fifth wheel. You can buy it and have it shipped to you for under $300 and the only difference in it and mine is the paint color and how the panel is wired. Identical engine and exhaust. Just cheaper.

Running both side by side the Homier unit was a little more quiet, no reason that I could tell why but it was quieter non the less....

From what I can gather by reading this thread, the ELM3000 also does not require a rewire. I have no first hand knowledge of this other than what I read here.