3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Barton_Family]

cbwells wrote:
I was thinking of buying one of the 4400 watt 3500 continuous gens and taking the cage off and the gas tank and putting it in where my Onan is then hooking up the electric fuel pump and making the exhast work.

I will try to find the information I am referring to but I have read in several places that the coach-type generators are manufactured differently in many ways than are the portable gensets. A huge problem for those that posted trying this was ventilation and cooling. I remember on my old 1987 Tioga Arrow, the Kohler genset had a huge squirrel-cage fan, for lack of a better description, directly below it, forcing air in and out. I am sure others will have better info to offer, but I don't know that I would do this. I did look at a early 80s class C that was for sale in a roadside lot. When we opened the generator compartment, there sat a portable generator. They had lined the compartment with foil faced insulation and there were burn/scorch marks all over the compartment. The guy told us that he took the door of when they went camping and only ran the unit a little while at a time because it got hot. He also said that once in a while the exhaust would get into the coach. The thing that scared me the most was that this was located right under the bed at the back of the class C. Not a good place for a fire or for exhaust to get in.

As for the parts, you have probably tried this, but my Kohler was only a few years newer than your Onan. I called a couple of local RV dealerships, spoke to their service departments and found out that one of them subcontracted their genset work out to a local tech that worked out of his home. He found a few parts for me that I wasn't able to find elsewhere, and he serviced the genset for me too, at about 1/2 of what the RV dealer was going to. If you can't find anyone in your area, I will try and find his contact info and forward it to you. He might know of a source.

[fujimo2]

I have been reading this forum for months now and have a question that has probably been anwsered. But, I have the elm3600 that has a NEMA L14-30r 125-250V 30-Amp, 3-pole 4-wire ground. Can I rig up a pigtail from this to get 30 amp 125 to my 5er? I am sure the professor or wizard can anwser this. I think I can but want to know for sure.

[alduck30]

I used my Elm3000 for the 1st time during the hurricane. It ran everything fine at home. Two refrigerators and 2 freezers for about 4 hours a day.

When I hooked it up to my TT every thing but the compressor would run.

It is a 15,000 but AC in a 24 ft TT. I even tried turning everything except the AC off and the breakers on the GEN would trip. I did get it running one time but it did not last long.

It seems that I am the only one with this issue.

I thought about replacing the breakers but I am not sure it would help.

Professor or Mr. Wizard any thoughts?

Has anyone used a Coleman Powermate 6250? I bought one for a friend on the coast and home depot has a ton of them.

[cbwells]

I have a 4000k Onan generator that is giving me fits. Plus it is hard to get parts for it. I need carb parts and I can't find them anywhere. It is a 1984 BFA-1R/16004C I have a 1984 Pace Arrow class A motor home we bought in Florida last spring before we came home. The Onan has not run good at all. I was thinking of buying one of the 4400 watt 3500 continuous gens and taking the cage off and the gas tank and putting it in where my Onan is then hooking up the electric fuel pump and making the exhast work. The 4400 is electric start. I might be able to hook up the switch to start from the inside also. If not it doesn't matter The only thing I am worried about is that maybe it will overheat. The 4400 is about $2,000.00 cheaper than the Onan. I am thinking of running this motor home for maybe 2 years and getting a newer one so I hate to put to much money in it. I have already totaly remodled the inside of it Thanks Curt

[Hatch-TX]

I've had a few requests for more info on my adapter cord for the PowerPro 5500 from Pep Boys. I am not an electrician. I'm not sure of the precise page and author, but I read about the test I describe below somewhere in this thread.

Remember: no generator mods required on the PP5500. Spec review: 23 amps available @ 240V or 46 amps @ 120V, but not both at the same time. At 120V, the 46 amps is divided between the two duplex outlets (23 amps each). All of this info is from the owner's manual.

The key test (I read about in here) to determine if this generator was good-to-go was using a multimeter to check across the TWO SEPARATE duplex plug circuits. I checked black-black and white-white and got a reading of zero volts (good). Then I checked from white on the left outlet to black on the right outlet and got 120 volts (good). Then black left to white right...120 volts (good).

I went to Harbor Freight and bought two 12 gauge tri-plug adapters on sale (this was waaaay cheaper than buying two male ends and a little bit of wire at Home Depot). I cut off the triple ends (saving enough wire in case I wanted to add them to an extension cord in the future). Then I picked up a 30 amp RV female plug and pigtail at my local RV supply (10 gauge). Solder or wire nut all the whites together, all the blacks together, all the greens together. Then I double super duper quadruple wrapped everything with electrical tape. [NOTE: you need BIG wire nuts to get all these fat wires to tie together]

I now have access to 46 amps (23 amps from each leg) and can rely on the 30 amp breaker in my camper for safe regulation of power flow, with the system never nearing it's 43 amp max and me never having to worry about venturing outside to reset the breaker on the generator.

This is not theoretical; it actually works. I ran the generator for 14 and 12 continuous hours Sat and Sun night last weekend, air conditioning running all night (compressor cycling on/off, fan continuous). My 40 amp converter was also on all night (not much load on it so I can't say how much it was pulling).

[xbronx]

You folks are the best. I have been reading all the stuff you have written on these gens. I just purchased one and all my questions are
answered here, not via the "manual"?

Thank you all.

[rfaulkner99]

Is the Elim 3000 or 3000L still being offered somewhere? I went to PepBoys today and saw the PowerPro 3500 but I was hoping to get one of the Elim's.

I might be willing to pay shipping, if it is not too much, plus I probably wouldn't pay tax since it would be out of state.:D

[backin15]

I picked up a Power Pro 3500, mostly because I didn't want to pay for shipping the Elim and dealing with damage and the Champion was $80.00 more. Just because I can't leave things alone the first thing I did was Wyatt-S's wiring mod which was a simple 10 minute procedure. I made a pigtail to go from the twist lock outlet to the TT power cord and fired it up. Much quieter than I expected and when connected to the TT the A/C and the micro ran perfectly and the voltage at the outlet was still 120 volts. However, when I checked the outlet to ground I found 61 volts from neutral to ground and 59 volts line to ground. I found the same results when I checked the 110 volt outlet on the generator. Is this normal or did I goof something when doing the mod?

[professor95]

Thanks for the Barton Family for giving the link to the sound proofing site.

If you go there, you need to register to get to all the "good stuff". The forum on the front-end doesn't offer much. But, if you want to just jump to one of the articles that I found beneficial after registering, use this URL: http://www.soundproofing.org/infopages/generator.htm

Once you get there, you can expand the diagram of the three box method by clicking on it. Also check out the side bar under links for soundproofing.

One word of caution(?)...... this is a commercial site and they would like to sell you their products.

....and Mel, if I crossed a thin line by posting a link to a commercial site, you have my permission to admonish me appropriately. I just wanted those who are interested in pursuing this subject to see some of the "stuff" and ideas available.

[lonnor1]

I bought a Champion 3.5KW with 4.4KW peak to use over labor day. We dry camped for five days and used the gen to charge batteries. I also bought a twist lock plug for the 120/240 outlet on the gen. I made a pig-tail with that plug and a 30amp RV plug. I plugged the TT directly into the 30 amp. One side of the twist plug is 15amps while the other is 30amps. Of course I wired the wrong one first. After correcting to the 30amp side the gen ran the AC no problem. The trailer is equipped with a 15,000 BTU AC. I contacted Champion Industries on how to wire the plug via E-mail, they were very helpful. The generator started on second pull every time and was surprisingly quiet.

[MrWizard]

Krazyjohnny wrote:
Professor or someone with more knowledge on this than I please respond. Can you retain your 240 volt connection and get the full 120 V out of the 120 plug at the same time? In other words bridge the 120 volt plug and leave the 240 volt plug alone. Also has anyone attempted a soundproof enclosure to further the quietness of this genset?

NO

you can put in a switch to change modes ( whiled turned OFF )

but you cannot have both at the same time

not with any portable - afordable genrator i have seen

that would require more windings in the generator HEAD

these generators have ( 2 ) windings

they can be in series for 220 volts or parallel for 120 volts

but they can ony be ONE way while being used it's either way NOT both ways

[Barton_Family]

professor95 wrote:
As far as soundproofing, one of the best sites I have visited was the one John with ELIM mentioned about two weeks ago. It was a commercial site, they had some excellent ideas.

I am currently on a wi-fi connection in Winston-Salem, NC with the laptop (not at home) and do not have my bookmarks from my "big" PC available. Maybe some one else remembers where it is or has a bookmark?

I think this is the site the Professor was referring to.
Click Here
Hope this helps.

[professor95]

Professor or someone with more knowledge on this than I please respond. Can you retain your 240 volt connection and get the full 120 V out of the 120 plug at the same time? In other words bridge the 120 volt plug and leave the 240 volt plug alone. Also has anyone attempted a soundproof enclosure to further the quietness of this genset?

I have read and reread your question several times and am still not sure exactly what you are asking. If I interpret it correctly, you want to have both 120 and 240 with the same available amperage, but not at the same time? If so, the answer is yes. This is what the ELM3000 offers and what you might have by rewiring one of the other gensets discussed on this forum if you add the switch to select 120 parallel or 240 series.

If you want the both at the same time, the answer is no.

If your question is still unanswered, please try again - I will be more than glad to give it a second shot.

As far as soundproofing, one of the best sites I have visited was the one John with ELIM mentioned about two weeks ago. It was a commercial site, they had some excellent ideas.

I am currently on a wi-fi connection in Winston-Salem, NC with the laptop (not at home) and do not have my bookmarks from my "big" PC available. Maybe some one else remembers where it is or has a bookmark?

[hotrod4x5]

sidst wrote:
On page 90 of this forum ...

The page number a particular response appears will vary from user to user depending on how many posts per page they have chosen in their preferences.

[sidst]

On page 90 of this forum allpraisebob published a diagram showing how to wire a 15 amp DPDT switch to make the Pepboys 3500 watt generator switchable between 120 and 240 volts and provides full wattage from the generator in either configuration. The circuit breaker does not have to be changed either.