3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

Professor I hate to keep bugging you , but you mention "rewiring" the generator to obtain full power at a 120 volts. Is there any way you can elaborate on this procedure, and again please in the simplest way possible

Knowing the size of this forum, I realize that it is time consuming to read through the many postings to garner information. Since I do not own a Champion generator, I cannot give you specific directions. I suggest you search back through the forum (again) with keywords like "rewiring" and you will find many responses, explanations and procedures outlined that should answer your question. I believe Bob_b, Catalina30 and Mr. Wizard have made some of the most recent and detailed postings on this subject. Try searching their postings as well (click on a members name to the left of a posting and then click on view posts. As far as finding a posting that is specific to the Champion, I do not remember one. But, the identification process of the correct wires to swap seems to be identical for all of these little Chinese ginnys. Following the process given by any one of the gentlemen cited should prove successful.

That said; briefly, all of these generators that provide 220 volts can be rewired (very simply) to provide twice the available current rating at 110 volts. The theory is similar to RV batteries: Two six volt golf cart batteries in series will equal 12 volts but the current available will not increase beyond the rating of a single battery. Two 12 volt batteries in parallel will provide up to twice the current of one battery with no increase in voltage. These generators have two main coils in series to provide 220 volts at (usually) 3,000 watts. Since wattage divided by voltage equals amperage, there is a little over 13 amps available in the series circuit. This is on the shy side for most RVs, especially if you want to run the air conditioner from a generator. By rewiring the generator to a parallel circuit, we will only achieve a maximum of 110 volts (1/2 of 220), but we will double the available current, which means we can draw up to 26 amps at 110 volts from a single outlet. This is what we need for our 20 and 30 amp service RVs (50 amp service RVs are a different story).

Again, there are many pages and photos detailing the process back in the forum.

[professor95]

Professor, I have the Champion3500 and have the orange adaptor
shown in picture. I have only tested it to see how it would run
my 15,000 btu A/C.(worked ok) What sort of dangerous situation
could occur? Thanks in advance.

My answer was:

Would a very good possibility of supplying 220 volts rather than 110 volts to your camper be enough reason to not use it? All it takes is a fault path that often exists in generator to RV circuits.

To Overhill7:

I believe I spoke too quickly when I gave you the above answer. After going back and looking at the images of the Champion unit I noticed that it has two 120 volt outlets. One is a twistlock and the other a duplex. As such, the duplex is most likely wired as a single circuit outlet. This would make it safe to use the "orange" adapter. In any event, to be sure, inspect the outlet as I described a few messages down to see if it is split or connected.

Sorry if I caused any confusion.

[northshore]

Professor I hate to keep bugging you , but you mention "rewiring" the generator to obtain full power at a 120 volts. Is there any way you can elaborate on this proceedure, and again please in the simplest way possible

[northshore]

Overhill, do you plug the orange adapter in the right hand set of plugs or the left hand set? and did you use a voltage tester to check the voltage coming out of the orange adapter? ... and finally did you in some way rewire your champion 3500 generator? In the above post from the Professor he mentions "rewiring" the generator, did you do this? and if you did how did you do it? I believe that I read that there was a post about "rewiring" a champion 3500 generator but I cant find it any where, I have searched and read most all of these posts in this thread until I got generator melt down on the brain.

[BlackMax]

I'd like to install a 4 prong 50 amp socket on the new Costco Nikota (3.5KW Generator 06044) that would eliminate all the adapters and dog bones. I know better than to assume I know what I'm doing, so if someone knowledgeable acquires one of these newer Costco versions of the Nokita, could you share your thoughts. Currently the trailer uses only one leg of the 50 amp plug, and I don't have plans to add the ac that requires that circuit. I do anticipate adding a box of some sort to accommodate the socket, but do not wish to degrade my ability to refit to duplex sockets for home emergency use. Also, permanent modifications may preclude me from returning the unit to Costco should it fail. With these units that's a real plus. Any input appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[professor95]

Professor, I have the Champion3500 and have the orange adaptor
shown in picture. I have only tested it to see how it would run
my 15,000 btu A/C.(worked ok) What sort of dangerous situation
could occur? Thanks in advance.

Would a very good possibility of supplying 220 volts rather than 110 volts to your camper be enough reason to not use it? All it takes is a fault path that often exists in generator to RV circuits.

[kneisl1]

>treated with stabil<

You may have a problem starting an engine with stabil treated gas in cold weather. My snowblower would not pull start with stabil treated gas, had to use the electric start. Finally figured it out, filled with fresh gas and it rope starts every time.
Thats a good question though about metal tanks rusting. Cant think of a gen with a metal tank these days! I plan to use my gen for emergencies which may mean a long time between starts.

[overhill7]

Professor, I have the Champion3500 and have the orange adaptor
shown in picture. I have only tested it to see how it would run
my 15,000 btu A/C.(worked ok) What sort of dangerous situation
could occur? Thanks in advance.

[in_da_keys]

professor95 wrote:

The question I have is about the metal gas tank.What is the best way to store it so it won't rust?I

Hummmmm....... interesting question. The metal gas tanks on my grandson's go cart and my rototiller are both rusted. But, the metal fuel tanks for my boat are not. What is the difference? My knee jerk is the oil in the fuel for the boat. Even when the tank is empty, an oily film remains inside the tank. So...... taking the marine theory to heart, what do you think of taking a can of aresol spray "fogging oil" like I use to douse my boat engine and other rustable marine components over the winter months. This is great stuff. I use it on saw blades in my workshop to keep them from rusting during the humid summer months. Also spray it on the bare cast iron parts of my lathe, drill press and table saw. It seems to work - so far.

What if you were to spray a heavy fog inside an empty metal gas tank? My bet is it would coat the tank so as to prevent or slow rust formation. The minute amount of oil in the tank would make no difference when you added gas to the tank later, in fact, the gas would disolve the oil.

Yep, I think it is worth a try. Thanks for the question, it created a new idea!

I store mine with some gas in it, treated with Sta-bil.

Not sure this is good or bad, but this is how I store all my small engines. Never had a problem.

[professor95]

The question I have is about the metal gas tank.What is the best way to store it so it won't rust?I

Hummmmm....... interesting question. The metal gas tanks on my grandson's go cart and my rototiller are both rusted. But, the metal fuel tanks for my boat are not. What is the difference? My knee jerk is the oil in the fuel for the boat. Even when the tank is empty, an oily film remains inside the tank. So...... taking the marine theory to heart, what do you think of taking a can of aresol spray "fogging oil" like I use to douse my boat engine and other rustable marine components over the winter months. This is great stuff. I use it on saw blades in my workshop to keep them from rusting during the humid summer months. Also spray it on the bare cast iron parts of my lathe, drill press and table saw. It seems to work - so far.

What if you were to spray a heavy fog inside an empty metal gas tank? My bet is it would coat the tank so as to prevent or slow rust formation. The minute amount of oil in the tank would make no difference when you added gas to the tank later, in fact, the gas would disolve the oil.

Yep, I think it is worth a try. Thanks for the question, it created a new idea!

[professor95]

Professor; Im sure this has been gone over and I probably read it but didnt understand it, I would like to know:
on a champion 3500 watt, will the "dog bone" work,
as I understand it the "dog bone" or adapter (Ive seen pictures) where the adapter is plugged into the two duplex receptacles (right side) and gives you a place to plug in the RV 30 amp cord. Ive read lots about switches and I don't believe the Champion 3500 watt generator has a switch, please correct me if I am wrong. an explanation in the "simplest form" would be greatly appreciated. thank you

Note: this reply contains image links to photos I have placed on another web site (photobucket.com). If images do not appear, it may be the image site is unavailable. Try the connection again later.


I do not own a Champion generator. Thus, all I can do is comment on what I have come to believe about these units from what others on the forum have shared.

First, the term “dogbone” may be misleading. In actuality, a dogbone is an adapter that allows use of a NEMA #TT 30 amp connector in a NEMA #5-15 (duplex) outlet like the ones used in your home. Since this adapter looks something like a dog’s bone, I will assume the name came from its appearance.

It is important to note that this adapter only uses a single 120 volt circuit and is limited to the actual capacity of the smaller outlet. It does not make a full 30 amps available to the TT. The disadvantage of this adapter is that due to the weight, it likes to fall out of the outlet and has minimal surface contact area on the little end.

Let’s take a moment to look at these residential style duplex outlets. When installing these outlets you have two options – either common circuit or split circuit. You select which you want by breaking out a small tab on the hot side of the outlet.

On some generators that use duplex outlets, one of the two series connected 120 volt circuits in the generator is connected to circuit 1, and the other to circuit 2. In this case, the tab is broken and the duplex outlet is separated.



On others, the tab is not broken out and the entire output of a circuit is connected to both parts of the duplex outlet.

There is another adapter available that a lot of folks are using. Some are mistakenly calling it a dogbone too. This is what it looks like.



Notice that BOTH halves of the duplex outlet this adapter is plugged into will be tied together when you use this adapter. This is OK for a common circuit outlet, but extremely dangerous for a split circuit.

So, bottom line is this…. If you are not sure about your wiring, OPEN YOUR GENERATOR panel (power off) and inspect the duplex outlet. If the tab on the hot side is missing, indicating that the top and bottom halves of the duplex outlet are on separate circuits, it is NOT OK to use the orange adapter. You MUST use the dogbone adapter on ONLY ONE of the outlet halves.

If the tab is present, it is OK to use the orange adapter or, if you prefer, the dogbone adapter (either one is OK).

I believe the Champion is a 220 volt generator that uses a SPLIT duplex outlet with 1/2 of the series wound coils attached to each half of the outlet to provide two 120 volt circuits. Use of the ORANGE adapter on this generator would be dangerous!

If you rewire your generator for full power at 120 volts, I would install a NEW 20 amp duplex outlet with the tab intact. Then, you could use the orange adapter.

[jimpcon]

Pep Boys (username "pep_boys" ) is selling the Power Pro 3500 online at EBay for $299.00 and only $40.00 shipping to anywhere in the US.

Below is a link to the generator, I hope it works if not look up the username "pep_boys".

http://cgi.ebay.com/3500-Watt-Generator-By-Power-Pro_W0QQitemZ7553366749QQcategoryZ46412QQrdZ1QQcmdZ...

I just bought an electric scooter from these people and all went well.

**NOTE** I was able to avoid shipping charges by picking it up at my local Pep Boys. **NOTE**

[cmg3500]

I have been reading this thread for a few weeks now.I am in a area affected by hurricane Katrina.After reading,I finally went out and bought a Power Pro 3500 by WEN from Pep Boys,to have as a back up to my ageing Coleman powermate 6250.
The question I have is about the metal gas tank.What is the best way to store it so it won't rust?I would think if it was full all the way with fuel,it wouldn't have any space for air & moisture to get to it to form rust?But,the owners manual says to store it empty?So I don't know what to do.How do you store yours?Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks

[northshore]

Professor; Im sure this has been gone over and I probably read it but didnt understand it, I would like to know:
on a champion 3500 watt, will the "dog bone" work,
as I understand it the "dog bone" or adapter (Ive seen pictures) where the adapter is plugged into the two duplex recepticles (right side) and gives you a place to plug in the RV 30 amp cord. Ive read lots about switches and I dont believe the Champion 3500 watt generator has a switch, please correct me if I am wrong. an explaination in the "simplest form" would be greatly appreciated. thank you

[gunny357]

So check this out.

www.buykipor.com