3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[bob_b1]

blazer8 wrote:
I've been running my AC off an adapter through the 110/220 outlet on my 3500 PowerPro without problems. Are you saying that the standard 110 outlet only gets power from one coil while the 110/220 gets power from both? Why can't I run the AC on the regular 110 outlet without rewiring? Is it only getting half the amps? I've read almost this whole discussion and I am still not really clear how these things are wired inside. I'm not going to rewire it inside as the adapter works fine. I am just curious why it won't work and I haven't found the answer in this discussion. For now the adapter is o.k.

Pulling your load through just one-half of the twistlock is better than pulling it all through the standard outlet, because the twistlock is rated for more power. The twistlock has a larger contact area which means less heat build-up than the standard. I just use the twistlock for better peace-of-mind and to minimize the problem of the plug vibrating out of the socket.

[blazer8]

I've been running my AC off an adapter through the 110/220 outlet on my 3500 PowerPro without problems. Are you saying that the standard 110 outlet only gets power from one coil while the 110/220 gets power from both? Why can't I run the AC on the regular 110 outlet without rewiring? Is it only getting half the amps? I've read almost this whole discussion and I am still not really clear how these things are wired inside. I'm not going to rewire it inside as the adapter works fine. I am just curious why it won't work and I haven't found the answer in this discussion. For now the adapter is o.k.

[bob_b1]

jimpcon wrote:

texasarrowhead wrote:
Anyone that has a PowerPro 3500 can help me rewire this.If not I might take it back and get the Powerpro 5500.

The rewire/modification, gets done INSIDE the generator head, NOT on the panel. That is the finned round cover on the right hand side(looking at the front) held on with two 8mm bolts.

I am not to bright when it comes to this stuff either but I found this mod VERY EASY to do. Tops, it took me 5 minutes!!

I am going to modify my instructions (from page 127). It was a bad assumption on my part that everyone knew what a generator head is.

[catalina30]

MrWizard wrote:

northshore wrote:
hoping that this isnt too far off topic, but has any one thought about wiring two 1200 watt Champion Generators together, simular to the way Honda does it with their 2000 watt generators

has been brought up, can't be done..the same way..

the honda's are "inverters" powered by a motor the syncing is in the electronics

the ''power pro's- elim-etc.." are standard mechanical generator heads , they would need to be physically aligned on the same shaft to be in phase/synced ( like the dynamo heads in a power dam run by a turbine )

Yes it can be done, but if done wrong you will know it in a big way. you can sync the wave form and then lock the two together ( the two generators will keep each other in sync once they are tied together). it can be done with light bulbs, but I will tell you that without training I would not. this is how in the grid they bring, or at least used to bring, a generator on line. doing it wrong is a sure way of getting everyones attention.

Kevin
The Right Lane

[catalina30]

On your propane conversion look up US Carbs on the web they sell what you need.
Kevin

BlackMax wrote:
RE: Nokita 4 prong adapter
Thanks for your input Kenny. I'll attempt to get a copy of the diagram to you. I am also looking to convert to propane, likely propane only. I'm thinking of making the gasoline tank area into a storage bin and noise shroud of sorts. Dad's an EE, coming down to visit this weekend. We might come up with something ourselves. I'll keep you informed.

[BlackMax]

RE: Nokita 4 prong adapter
Thanks for your input Kenny. I'll attempt to get a copy of the diagram to you. I am also looking to convert to propane, likely propane only. I'm thinking of making the gasoline tank area into a storage bin and noise shroud of sorts. Dad's an EE, coming down to visit this weekend. We might come up with something ourselves. I'll keep you informed.

[MrWizard]

northshore wrote:
hoping that this isnt too far off topic, but has any one thought about wiring two 1200 watt Champion Generators together, simular to the way Honda does it with their 2000 watt generators

has been brought up, can't be done..the same way..

the honda's are "inverters" powered by a motor the syncing is in the electronics

the ''power pro's- elim-etc.." are standard mechanical generator heads , they would need to be physically aligned on the same shaft to be in phase/synced ( like the dynamo heads in a power dam run by a turbine )

[northshore]

hoping that this isnt too far off topic, but has any one thought about wiring two 1200 watt Champion Generators together, simular to the way Honda does it with their 2000 watt generators

[texasarrowhead]

WOW!!!!!!LOL THANKS!
I guess I made it to hard!
Man this site is awsome!Thanks again guys!

[jimpcon]

texasarrowhead wrote:
Anyone that has a PowerPro 3500 can help me rewire this.If not I might take it back and get the Powerpro 5500.

The rewire/modification, gets done INSIDE the generator head, NOT on the panel. That is the finned round cover on the right hand side(looking at the front) held on with two 8mm bolts.

I am not to bright when it comes to this stuff either but I found this mod VERY EASY to do. Tops, it took me 5 minutes!!

[texasarrowhead]

bob b wrote:
The 3500 rewire only requires an 8mm socket to complete the whole job.

Step 1: Remove the two 8mm bolts on the generator head cover.

Step 2: Identify the terminal block. It has four 8mm screws that have eight wires plugged into it. Two wires per terminal.

Step 3: Identify where the wires from front panel are coming from. You will notice that they come through a rubber grommet on the 12 O'clock position on the opening. Four of the those wires lead to the top side screw terminal block.

Step 4: Identify the four wires coming from the generator head. They come up from the bottom the thermal block.

Step 5: Unscrew the 8mm screw from the red wires. You will not be using this terminal anymore. Remove both red wires.

Step 6: Remove the 8mm screw from the blue wires. Leave the blue wires on the bolt. Take the top red wire (from the panel) and attach it the terminal that the two blue wires are using. Reattach the 8mm screw. This terminal now has two blue wires and one red wire (from the panel).

Step 7: Remove the 8mm screw from the brown wires. Leave the brown wires on the bolt. Take the bottom red wire (from the generator head) and attach it the terminal that the two brown wires are using. Reattach the 8mm screw. This terminal now has two brown wires and one red wire (from the generator head).

Step 8: Reattach the two 8mm bolts on the generator head cover

I took back the nikota and got the PowerPro 3500.Now I want to rewire it.I am not real bright at this stuff so I need Help!
OK let get this right.
I have a 120v plug and a 240 plug
? Does the 240 plug only get half or full 3500.I know that the 120v plug is half 3500 right.
Now I want to use this on my RV and I want the full 3500watts so I must rewire it.
OK here is were I am all messed up.
I open up the cover and go by Bob directions and look and I only have
6 wires coming form the gen head.
On the 240 plug back I have 2 red wires connected together and only 1 blue wire and 2 brown wires.Here is a PIC.I know this isn't hard just want to make sure what goes where.Does the red wire from panel goto the one blue wire on block or blue wire from gen head?Anyone that has a PowerPro 3500 can help me rewire this.If not I might take it back and get the Powerpro 5500.

[catalina30]

BlackMax wrote:
I'd like to install a 4 prong 50 amp socket on the new Costco Nikota (3.5KW Generator 06044) that would eliminate all the adapters and dog bones. I know better than to assume I know what I'm doing, so if someone knowledgeable acquires one of these newer Costco versions of the Nokita, could you share your thoughts. Currently the trailer uses only one leg of the 50 amp plug, and I don't have plans to add the ac that requires that circuit. I do anticipate adding a box of some sort to accommodate the socket, but do not wish to degrade my ability to refit to duplex sockets for home emergency use. Also, permanent modifications may preclude me from returning the unit to Costco should it fail. With these units that's a real plus. Any input appreciated. Thanks in advance.

First you need to know if when in 110 mode if the output is made available on the gensets 220 outlet, if it is only on one leg then an adapter to go from the twistlock on the gen to the RV is all that would be needed. but most likely it is switched off. My guess is you will need to take a handy box and make an adapter using the two outlets from the duplex recepticle of the genset the genhead has the drawing of the curcuit path on top of it at the backplate. it is also my guess that the black wire of the plug or "L1" is the wire used on your RV. If you promise to post, you could send me a drawing of the diagram and I will look it over and show you how to hook it up for full power. One thing that has not been covered on this list is that a switch over box could be used for a genset on an RV if you didn't want to mess with cords everytime you wanted to use a generator. I am mounting my genset on the back of the trailer and want to get rid of having to hookup everytime I want to use it.
Kevin
The Right Lane

[catalina30]

I suppose the tank could rust thru but not in the generators life time. The rust will settle in the carb bowl if any gets worked loose. But if you want to do some pre measure to prevent it, you could get the paint that is used inside of motorcycle gas tanks. the way it is used is pour it into the tank and work it around inside the tank, then return unused paint to the can. You can get it at industrial paint stores, have fun.
Kevin

professor95 wrote:

The question I have is about the metal gas tank.What is the best way to store it so it won't rust?I

Hummmmm....... interesting question. The metal gas tanks on my grandson's go cart and my rototiller are both rusted. But, the metal fuel tanks for my boat are not. What is the difference? My knee jerk is the oil in the fuel for the boat. Even when the tank is empty, an oily film remains inside the tank. So...... taking the marine theory to heart, what do you think of taking a can of aresol spray "fogging oil" like I use to douse my boat engine and other rustable marine components over the winter months. This is great stuff. I use it on saw blades in my workshop to keep them from rusting during the humid summer months. Also spray it on the bare cast iron parts of my lathe, drill press and table saw. It seems to work - so far.

What if you were to spray a heavy fog inside an empty metal gas tank? My bet is it would coat the tank so as to prevent or slow rust formation. The minute amount of oil in the tank would make no difference when you added gas to the tank later, in fact, the gas would disolve the oil.

Yep, I think it is worth a try. Thanks for the question, it created a new idea!

[overhill7]

professor95 wrote:

Professor, I have the Champion3500 and have the orange adaptor
shown in picture. I have only tested it to see how it would run
my 15,000 btu A/C.(worked ok) What sort of dangerous situation
could occur? Thanks in advance.

Would a very good possibility of supplying 220 volts rather than 110 volts to your camper be enough reason to not use it? All it takes is a fault path that often exists in generator to RV circuits.

I checked wiring on my Champion today and the duplex plugs are wired
as common per professors illustrations except that they include a
frame ground wire. An email to Champions tech line confirmed ok to
use the orange adaptor shown in illustration.

[Barton_Family]

Here is one mention of the Champion being rewired. Maybe you can contact Sonic1954 directly and ask him really nice if he'll share the secret with you 😉 But I think the link below may be what you are looking for. This is what makes this forum so wonderful. Folks like the Professor and everyone else who contributes so that it makes it easier for the next person. Good Luck, Ric.

Click on me so you can see