3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[presp]

Caveman3 wrote:
The transfer panel I'll be using has watt meters in it to monitor how each leg of the 220V gets loaded. Caveman

It is unclear to me if you were running 220v.
If you were, as mentioned in a post awhile back, the generator 220v is incompatible with "household" 220v.
This is due to the phasing difference.
Household 220v is at 120 degree phase shift. Generator 220v is at 180 degree phase shift.
Resistance appliances, like a water heater, will probably work ok.
However, a 220v electric motor that is phase sensitive (e.g. capacitor start) can have trouble.

Easiest solution is DO NOT run 220v anything with it.
Only use 120v unless you are willing to ensure phase shift compatability.

Of course, the above is somewhat academic if you are only running 120v.

Presp

[Sonic1954]

Hot Rod Cummins wrote:
professor95

Thanks for the quick reply and all your help on this subject. The clock trick is great and sooo easy (if you can find a analog clock these days). I will have a more relaxing trip knowing nothing is going up in smoke due to the 50HZ thing and hopefully it is mislabeled.
Thanks Again
John

The hz is actually controlled by the RPM of you generator, not the 50hz thing that you found inside. Since 50hz is all they have in China, then the part is probably labled correctly but will work just fine at 60 hz as it works at 50 hz.

If you want to fine tune your gen set, you can use the clock as mentioned in the above posts and fine tune you gen set my adjusting the rpm. I really do not advise this unless you are more than 2 mhz off. As you load and unload the genset, the rpm and hz will go up and down a little bit anyway!

[Hot_Rod_Cummins]

professor95

Thanks for the quick reply and all your help on this subject. The clock trick is great and sooo easy (if you can find a analog clock these days). I will have a more relaxing trip knowing nothing is going up in smoke due to the 50HZ thing and hopefully it is mislabeled.
Thanks Again
John

[professor95]

For those who have purchased the PowerPro 3500. If it has a 120v-120/240V switch on it, it will output full capacity to the 120V outlet according to the tech guy I talked to this morning. I pulled the cover off the gen head and noticed the voltage regulator has a tag on it that says 50HZ 2200 watts. When I asked about this he told me it was prolly mislabeled and there was no way to check it other than run it and see what happens.
Is there anything that can be damaged in a RV with 50HZ instead of 60HZ?
I am starting a 2 week RV trip so it will get some use and I will know more later.

I posted this to another generator forum recently. I am reposting it here in hopes it will answer your question.

professor95 wrote:

One of the simplist and cheapest frequency counters for any gasoline driven generator is an analog electric clock with a second hand that runs off of 120 volt household AC.

If the frequency of the power source is exactly 60 Hz, the clock will keep perfect time. If the frequency is off, the clock will run fast or slow.

Get an accurate stop watch. Plug the clock into the generator. Click the stop watch when the second hand exactly reaches the "12" and again when it comes exactly back to the 12 again (one minute). Compare the stop watch to the electric clock. If the electric clock lost a second (59 seconds vs. stopwatch = 60 seconds) then your generator frequency is 59 Hz. Respectively, if the clock is 5 seconds fast, the generator frequency is 65 Hz.

Most inductive AC appliances for use in the USA will work satisfactorily between a range with a low of 55 Hz and a high of 65 Hz (some will even work OK between 50Hz and 70Hz). Of course, AC motor speed may change according to frequency. Non inductive appliances, like heaters, could care less what the frequency is (fan speed may vary).

The long and short of it is you do NOT normally need exactly 60Hz for your TT. A differential of a few Hz will make little difference, even with TVs and air conditioners (unless you have an analog electric clock).
[/quote

[Hot_Rod_Cummins]

For those who have purchased the PowerPro 3500. If it has a 120v-120/240V switch on it, it will output full capacity to the 120V outlet according to the tech guy I talked to this morning. I pulled the cover off the gen head and noticed the voltage regulator has a tag on it that says 50HZ 2200 watts. When I asked about this he told me it was prolly mislabeled and there was no way to check it other than run it and see what happens.
Is there anything that can be damaged in a RV with 50HZ instead of 60HZ?
I am starting a 2 week RV trip so it will get some use and I will know more later.

[radaglast]

mike_65
The new nikota model number is 06044.Yours must be from the older ones before they want under. The company that bought Nikota out is AMERICANPOWERPRODUCTS. I don't have their 800 number, but I'm trying to get it. You can also reach them at www.americanpowerproducts.com. I guess you can ask them if they are covering your machine or if they can help you at a small cost. Either way, good luck and I hope this info helps you...
Rad...

[lprice]

khager76248 wrote:
LPrice How do you like your new generator? I assume you bought it off of eBay right? I am looking at the same thing $300 plus shipping which shows to be $80 on their calculator. I notice the seller strongly recommends local pickup in Buffalo which is impossible for me, I guess they have had a lot of damaged ones due to shipping. I wonder which is safer UPS or FedEx? Did you have any damage to yours? I assume you buy an adaptor for the 4 prong 30 amp to a 3 prong RV type and plug it in there right? The 3000 I was looking at before did not have this plug, nor did it have the 12V outlet for charging batteries. Also does it have a switch to go from 115 to 230 VAC? Does anyone else have the new 3000L series? Thanks

Kevin

Kevin,

I like the generator. Yes, I purchased it off of Ebay. The only damage experienced was to a plastic cover located behind the control panel. I called the company and they immediately sent a whole new control panel. The motor has shock absorbers on it and they figure that through shipping the motor bounced upward, making contact with the cover, which broke it. I made an adaptor, such as that shown by the professor, on page 9 of this thread. I purchased an RV outlet, 12 gauge wire, 2 male plugs, box, and cover at Lowes. Regarding the folks who work at the company that the generator was purchased from, they were very nice to talk to, answering all my questions.

[mike_65]

radaglast wrote:
mike_65
What model number is your nikota? There is some talk that another company might have bought the rights to the name Nikota and might be offering some warranty on some older models.
Rad...

Rad,

I couldn't find a model number, only an Item number which may or may not be the same. (Item # 06041) The generator is a Nikota 3500w, 6.5 hp OHV with a type GSa-M1-C single phase, brushless generator. Any information regarding warranty validity would be greatly appreciated. I would actualy like to use this gen set without paying for it twice.

[blazer8]

The fuel gauge on mine was stuck when new and only required taking the two screws out and bending it a little to free it up.

[nigelstubblefie]

It appears my problem with the new Champion 3500 is the gas cap. The Champion customer support is helping me. The odd thing is that there must be a latency in the vacuum caused starveout because I removed the cap and it still gagged. It must take some time to refill the line. I temporarily removed the rubber gasket on the cap and the gen is running great now. Just need to fix the fuel gage, which is next.

[khager76248]

LPrice How do you like your new generator? I assume you bought it off of eBay right? I am looking at the same thing $300 plus shipping which shows to be $80 on their calculator. I notice the seller strongly recommends local pickup in Buffalo which is impossible for me, I guess they have had a lot of damaged ones due to shipping. I wonder which is safer UPS or FedEx? Did you have any damage to yours? I assume you buy an adaptor for the 4 prong 30 amp to a 3 prong RV type and plug it in there right? The 3000 I was looking at before did not have this plug, nor did it have the 12V outlet for charging batteries. Also does it have a switch to go from 115 to 230 VAC? Does anyone else have the new 3000L series? Thanks

Kevin

[radaglast]

mike_65
What model number is your nikota? There is some talk that another company might have bought the rights to the name Nikota and might be offering some warranty on some older models.
Rad...

[mike_65]

mike_65 wrote:
I am a new subscriber to the site and I must say I am impressed with the patience and collaborative efforts here. I have been looking around for a generator for quit some time, Hurricane Rita pushed me to make a purchase rather quickly. With this being said, I would like to see if anyone has had a similar problem with their generators. I have a Nokita 3500w, purchased from PeP Boys that ran great for 48 hours then stopped producing power. The motor seems to be running at a slower speed with or without load. When I plug a test device (wall plug tester w/ three lights) into the socket, it only lights when I manually increase the throttle. Could the idle screw have backed off due to vibration? Should the generator produce power at a lower run speed? I may just take it back to see if I can get a replacement but would like to forgo the effort if it's something simple.....gas is not cheap these days!! Any info or assistance would be greatly appreciated.

UPDATE: OK, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE WONDERING ABOUT THE NIKOTA GEN SETS.... 10/18/05.

I called Pep-boys Corp office and also went to the store where I purchased it....no help.
I wrote Pep-Boys to explain my dilemma.... here is their reply::

Dear Mr. Tucker,
We apologize for any inconvenience caused.
Please be advised that any warranty or technical issues with the Nikota Generators that we sell are now being handled by Great Lake Tools. They can be reached by dialing 1-888-315-3080. A customer service representative will be better able to assist you.


Thank you,
Terrence Soverall
PepBoys Internet Coordinator.

I called the number above and was told the following:

Nikota is out of business...Bankrupt...Period! Filing bankruptcy eliminates any warranties implied on any product stamped Nikota, immediately. If you have a Nikota gen set that is under a year old and doesn't work...good luck. I did speak to a generator technician who said they would assist over the phone with any questions, even assist in diagnosing the problem but made it VERY clear there is no warranty on these gen sets. I was told they would look at the gen set ,customer courtesy, if I wanted to pay the round trip shipping. Any repairs would be done with what was available from used, scrap units. I asked what could be causing the problem I mentioned above and he told me he had not experienced this before and to try replacing the capacitor (possibly leaking down)............... and that he would assist later if needed. Once again stating they are not liable for these units and that it was best effort from there. I did confirm the company was Great Lake Tools and their gen sets were Wen-Pro, the ones being sold by Pep-Boys now. I'll try the capacitor and reply back....

[Caveman3]

Presp,

I figured that if the genset could start and run the miter saw, anything in the house would run okay. The saw was right at hand, so I used it.

I'll check the current rating when I get home, but I typically run it on a standard 15A circuit. When the failure occured, neither of the circuit breakers tripped.

Thanks for the lead on the amp clamp. There are just a few circuits I'll be powering from the genset. Furnace, fridge, and freezer, and a few lights. The transfer panel I'll be using has watt meters in it to monitor how each leg of the 220V gets loaded.

Caveman

[presp]

Caveman3 wrote:
... Thinking that if the genset would start and run a 10" miter saw, it would start and run anything in the house....
Is it possible that the miter saw was too much of an inductive load?

What does your (federally required) "miter saw" nameplate say in terms of voltage & amperage?

What relationship does your house power requirements have to do with a 10" miter saw?

Perhaps your best bet would be to get an ampmeter clamp to check what your actual house current requirements are.

A digital clamp-on ampmeter with "peak hold" you can test what your actual maximum current requirements are.
e.g. Harbor Freight, item# 42397-1VGA, $19.99

Pres