3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Toyota_Camper]

I recieved a Chinese Generator for Christmas. It is from Homier it is called a 4000 watt, (thats peak output I think). It is blue and has the Jung Dung (sp) 6.5 hp motor.

Put .63 quart of oil in it and some gas, turned on the on switch, gas on, choke on and it started on 3rd pull on cold damp day. Turned choke on it ran very smooth. Not that loud, quiter than my mowers. Can carry a conversation standing beside it. When it running outside of camper, cannot hear it with AC on!

It has two regular plugs, volt meter and breaker on front. Plugged into my motorhome ran everything. But it was too cold out for my 13.5 AC's compressor to kick-in...the true test. According to our site it is wired to give full power through one plug.

Nate

[catalina30]

mrfixit454 wrote:
This is a great thread. I have read all 150 pages and I am going back to better understand the tech stuff. Many thanks to those who have contributed here. I almost bought the Champion as it is available in my area. I would really like the ELIM (the volt switch feature) and started to search online and came across this. Anyone care to elaborate?? I really don't want to rewire any of these if I don't have to.

Ebay link to Sterling

Many thanks to Pat J on his thorough study of the Champion and to Professor95 and Wizard for all the tech stuff and research too. Any links to an ELIM seller would be great too. I did not see the 3000 on ELIMs website. My usage is primarily home backup in case of emergency but would like it to work for the RV as well. My only 220 is my stove/oven in the house.

Locally I can purchase Champion, Powerise (Kragen) , "All Power" (Pepboys) and another model at Pepboys... USA something or other. I have not gone to Harbor Freight yet.
Thanks,
Ramon

[catalina30]

mrfixit454 wrote:
This is a great thread. I have read all 150 pages and I am going back to better understand the tech stuff. Many thanks to those who have contributed here. I almost bought the Champion as it is available in my area. I would really like the ELIM (the volt switch feature) and started to search online and came across this. Anyone care to elaborate?? I really don't want to rewire any of these if I don't have to.

Ebay link to Sterling

Many thanks to Pat J on his thorough study of the Champion and to Professor95 and Wizard for all the tech stuff and research too. Any links to an ELIM seller would be great too. I did not see the 3000 on ELIMs website. My usage is primarily home backup in case of emergency but would like it to work for the RV as well. My only 220 is my stove/oven in the house.

Locally I can purchase Champion, Powerise (Kragen) , "All Power" (Pepboys) and another model at Pepboys... USA something or other. I have not gone to Harbor Freight yet.
Thanks,
Ramon

My brother bought a Wen from Pep Boys, The outlet is a 30 amp single. It has no switch, It has a 220v recepticle. I told him I didn't understand how the gen was wired that that was possible. We deside that the generator must have a larger wire size on the 110 side to handle the load, and a smaller winding for the other half that makes up the 220v. This would work fine as long as you keep the 220v load under the rating of the genset.
I would not say that I checked this out but the manual does say the 110 can draw the full load. All I can say is that Wen must have been reading this list and made the changes necessary for there largest market.

Kevin
The Right Lane

[professor95]

And yes, I keep stuff for a long, long time.

Yes, I do too. If you don't believe me, just ask my wife! Many of the machines and gadgets I own are discards from other folks who have no interest in repairing them when they quit functioning. They give them to me, I fix them and use them.

IMHO, "most" of the systems on the Chinese generators I have seen could be repaired at a later date even if OEM parts are not available. Items like circuit breakers, capacitors, diodes, switches, meters, motor mounts, recoil starter mechanisms, mufflers, fuel hoses, air filters (and the list goes on) are generic enough that anyone with some mechanical/electrical aptitude should be able to adapt a similar item so it will work satisfactorily and safely.

Virtually any electric motor or generator shop should be able to rewind the generator assembly should the need arise. The generator carrier bearings are standard metric bearings available from most any supplier.

What is left are the internal parts for the engine. Should you need a rod, piston, rings or crankshaft you "might" be SOL at a later date. But, considering the original price of the generator, it probably would not be cost effective to repair these assemblies anyway.

Again, IMHO, the longetivity of any machine is directly related to the care the owner provides. Change the oil, keep the air filter clean, don't leave it out in the rain, always use fresh fuel, respect the limits of the device and do not exceed the manufacturers ratings.

I have also found that the Internet and various "user groups" have become my best friends for keeping my 1936 Champion Outboard running. This also goes for my WWII vintage 2 cycle Homelite generator, my 1952 Clinton engine powered water pump and more.

While I cannot promise anything in the future, I do have strong feelings that the resources to keep these little buggers running will remain for some time - if you are willing to adapt and innovate as needed. On the other hand, if the owner is the type of person who wants to find an exact replacement part over the counter at a bricks and mortar store - good luck!

Again, these are only my feelings and opinions. Others may have drastically different feelings and opinions.

[mrfixit454]

Hey Randy,
Although we have not found the correct wiring diagram for my ELIM Storm series, I guess I was thinking that the 120/220 switch was taking care of the parallel/series thing as well. Am I wrong?? One of these days, I have to map the thing myself but this could take some time. I did pull the cover off the gen. end and it does not have polls w/ lugs like the Champions. It has 3 or 4 (don't remebr how many) platic connectors in different areas. Is your ELIM switching parallel/series between voltages?? Forgive me if these are reduntant questions, I read the thread twice many weeks ago and it took me a few days each time. Maybe a link to an old picture (or new) of how full rated single voltage vs. dual voltage split rated (or full I guess) sketch would help. What I am getting at is how many combinations are possible?
Thanks
Ramon

[sltintexas]

If the generator was a Honda that set me back $2,000 dollars, or an Onan that came in at over $3,000 - sure, I would be pretty upset if it became totally obsolete and no parts were available in 5-10 years. But for a $250.00 Chinese import, I don't care if parts are not available in 5-10 years (I could possibly adapt or make other parts work if needed). "If" it does make it 10 years, that is only $25.00 per year - pretty good depreciation ratio. By then there will be a newer technology that is most likely cheaper and more efficient.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. But there has been alot of talk about these being fairly hi quality units. If that is the case, it is not unreasonable to assume that, if this isn't heavily used, it is quite possible that it can last 5 years.

Forget 5-10 years, since this thread has started, the models going to pep boys have changed a few times in the span of 1 year.

And I am not bashing, I am probably buying one of these units this week, just trying to find out which one.

And yes, I keep stuff for a long, long time. 😉

[professor95]

I was quite surprised of the term ''downside of the (Lundtop) Launtop?? units''. I know that there is a switch which selects either 120 volt or 240 volts for I've seen it at a local importer in Montreal. I even know that there is a breaker, which I've ask the distributor to describe: DZ47-63 , C16 (it is 2-pole breaker), how many amps?? I don't know .

If you have anymore info on this ''downside bit'' and know anything about the size of the breaker it would be appreciated. I was hoping to purchase this LT3000CL unit in February, now I'am not sure anymore.

Thank you again for your brillant help on the genset subject

Roger

Wow, "brilliant help"? Can I buy you lunch!

Roger, I have not seen all of the Launtop models available. It is very possible that some of them may be configured so that they can provide full power at 120 volts. To do so, the generator coils would need to be switched from a series configuration to parallel. Many Chinese manufacturers now realize how important this is to the RV world and have made this change. (I can't help but wonder if the discussions on this thread may have had some influence on the specs specified by importers?)

Looking at the ELIM International Web Site and the Launatop Web Site and reading the specs and schematics available for given models has not shown ME any generators from this company that are series/parallel switchable from the front panel.

Again, they may be there - I just have not seen them. If the one you are purchasing turns out to be series/parallel switch selectable I certainly hope you will post your findings for others.

My guess is the double pole breaker (C16) would be a 16 amp breaker. If there is one pole on each winding and the unit you want does indeed provide for parallel output, then the combined breaker rating at 120 volts would be 32 amps.

If any event, if it is NOT switchable, you can always make a hardwire change to get what you need at 110 volts.

[professor95]

I would say one of the definite downsides for many of these chinese units is the fact that they don't seem to keep a particular unit with a particular configuration very long. I think that will make it difficult to find parts if you have one and need it serviced in 5-10 years. By then they may have switched engines/importers half a dozen times. I know its been said that honda parts MAY fit, but I don't know if that has been proven.

External Honda GX200 engine parts will fit the JiangDong 196CC, 6.5 HP engines. (carb, shroud & rope starter, ignition, etc.) Inside parts (piston, rod, cam, crank, etc.) are believed to fit as well (no proof yet). Not sure about the other clones.

As for 5-10 years? Let me guess, you are an old guy like me. You still have a 1966 Ford Galaxy you bought new after college and the Craftsman lawnmower you bought back in '88. Your VCR is a top loader and your TV still has a tuner that only selects 13 VHF channels.

Just kidding..........

If the generator was a Honda that set me back $2,000 dollars, or an Onan that came in at over $3,000 - sure, I would be pretty upset if it became totally obsolete and no parts were available in 5-10 years. But for a $250.00 Chinese import, I don't care if parts are not available in 5-10 years (I could possibly adapt or make other parts work if needed). "If" it does make it 10 years, that is only $25.00 per year - pretty good depreciation ratio. By then there will be a newer technology that is most likely cheaper and more efficient.

[professor95]

have spent the last hour looking at all the comments on this thread and still have not seen the original Generator the original posteer mentioned. I did see one that looked just like the ones I used to work on, that Sears sold.. How about the original poster produce the picture of the one he or she is positing about????Carl

Only 1 hour? Well, no wonder you did not find any photos! Most newcomers spend five or six hours searching before they give up. 😉

Anyway, while it is not a full detail photo, you can see what the ELM3000 that originally got this thread started looks like at http://home.comcast.net/~rtagee/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

[whopkin1]

boucher1 wrote:
DZ47-63 , C16 (it is 2-pole breaker), how many amps?? I don't know .

Looking at the table at:
http://www.delixi.com/english/aboutdlx/product.asp?seriesid=36&catalogid=330
It's a 16 amp two pole breaker.
On mine, I lack the "-63", it simply shows:
DZ47
C16

[sltintexas]

I would say one of the definite downsides for many of these chinese units is the fact that they don't seem to keep a particular unit with a particular configuration very long. I think that will make it difficult to find parts if you have one and need it serviced in 5-10 years. By then they may have switched engines/importers half a dozen times. I know its been said that honda parts MAY fit, but I don't know if that has been proven.

[boucher1]

professor95

on your post of: 12/06/05 08:07am

Elim International apparently no longer imports the JungDong units under their name, choosing to switch to another Chinese manufacturer operating under the name of Luntop. While not too many of the Luntop units have been discussed on this forum, they are also apparently of a reasonably good quality. The downside of the Luntop unit when compared to the JungDong is the ability to provide full wattage to a single outlet at 110-120 volts, a desirable feature for RV use. Elim International has apparently continued their ELM 3xxx model designation into their new line, causing some confusion from purchasers about what they are actually getting.

What we don’t know is how extensive the cloning of the JungDong product has been in China. I strongly suspect that many of these ELM3000 look-alike's may be copies of the copy.

I was quite surprised of the term ''downside of the (Lundtop) Launtop?? units''. I know that there is a switch which selects either 120 volt or 240 volts for I've seen it at a local importer in Montreal. I even know that there is a breaker, which I've ask the distributor to describe: DZ47-63 , C16 (it is 2-pole breaker), how many amps?? I don't know .

If you have anymore info on this ''downside bit'' and know anything about the size of the breaker it would be appreciated. I was hoping to purchase this LT3000CL unit in February, now I'am not sure anymore.

Thank you again for your brillant help on the genset subject

Roger

[LittleBill]

what generator? the elim3000?

[carl66vw]

I have spent the last hour looking at all the comments on this thread and still have not seen the original Generator the original posteer mentioned. I did see one that looked just like the ones I used to work on, that Sears sold.. How about the original poster produce the picture of the one he or she is positing about????Carl

[sltintexas]

One thing I forgot to mention. Pep Boys also has a complete different unit/name bearing the same product number #56350/tg-3000. It looks similar but is not a wen. It was something like T-USA and was a 3600 peak 3000 continuous. It had similar outlets as the old model powerpro 3500.