3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[camperdave]

mokanmikey wrote:
A question on the Champion, I am getting ready to do the rewire as outlined by camperdave on page 184 and would like one thing explained in easy layman terms.

What am I gaining by doing this? Everything seems to run fine now with the trailer plugged into the generator using a standard adapter into the 20amp receptacle.

You are quite correct, with the mod I am limited to 20amps, just like it is from the factory. HOWEVER, while the generator is shipped with a 20amp breaker on one single winding, I do not believe that the generator will last very long if consistently run near 20amps. These windings are not designed for that much load, and to be honest I don't know why Champion would breaker them so high. Now I'm not an electrical engineer, but it just makes common sense to me that the windings will run cooler and last longer if I am pulling 20 amps off of BOTH windings together instead of just one.

I'm not pushing or endorsing the method I used, as mentioned someone earlier did it differently (with much more involved wiring changes) in a manner which offers full 30amps (although it utilizes parallel breakers which I'm not familiar with, so I don't really know how well that works. May be fine, I've just never seen it done that way). I did it the way I did because 20 amps is sufficient for me, I wanted to lower the strain on the generator, and it is an easy 5 minute job with no downside to me. If I find I need more than the 20 amps, I'll figure out something else (but I run everything off a 20amp circuit at home with no problem).

So, the simple answer is that in my opinion you are extending the life of your generator by rewiring it to offer 20 amps off of both windings instead of just one.

[AZ_Ron]

Start the generator and then plug the RV in...

R

[jeebs08]

Hello everyone...I have been watching this forum for quite sometime (quietly). I have just purchased my first travel trailer! I noticed the Champion RV edition--the C46540. My question is this-Do i just plug in my trailer to the "RV" plug in and it will have all power automatically? The only time I will use generator is for trailer.

Thanks!

[mokanmikey]

Regarding the Champion upgrade,

mcmurphrjk wrote:

Seems to me the better conversion is the one posted by Sonic 1954, and others. That mod uses a 30 amp plug, and makes a full 30 amps available at one outlet. I have performed this mod, and It will run my AC andMicrowave at the same time, plus whatever other misc. draws I may have running.

I am not competent enough to perform this procedure and the diagrams are to small to make out.

[AZ_Ron]

Whopkin...thanks for the heads up on those manuals... Wish I'd discovered them first... However, Harbor Freight said they'd take it back no problem without the box...we did tell them that it had never had oil or fuel in it.
So I also found out that the Champion C46540's will be available in town sometime this coming week. We'll probably just borrow one from a friend for this coming weekend, then go and pick up the 46540 when we get back...
Something of note about Checker... I called them around noon today to see if they had any... called 7 different stores and no one had them in yet. I decided to call a large Checker store about 25 miles from my house, but that I knew to be a well stocked store... they said they did have them, and assured me it was the model I was looking for and had six sitting on the floor... Drove all the way over there when I got off work only to find they did not have them... they had the 535's... Oh well... I'll get one as soon as they come into one of the checkers within a couple of miles...
Anyhow, Thanks for much for all the input!! I'm very happy with the HF customer service...no argument!

Ron

[weissmand]

AZ_Ron,

I had this Generator from Harbor Freight. I won't run your A/C - I have a 13.5, Coleman Plus. I've switched off all the other breakers and still had no luck. The unit is adversited as 15 Amps per 120volt outlet and 20 Amps for the 120/240 outlet, but I can't see how it would work based on the wiring (as shown from the Schematic!).

I actually built a box around the unit to quiet it down, added a muffler, and put in fans to cool the unit down. I as able to muffle it down to about 69dbs - but at what cost? The sound deadening material which is what they use in sound studios is expensive, the box was a pain to lug and took two people and I couldn't run my AC.

Sometime next month I'll be getting either a Yamaha or a Kipor that'll run my AC and be quiet.

josh

[mcmurphrjk]

A question on the Champion, I am getting ready to do the rewire as outlined by camperdave on page 184 and would like one thing explained in easy layman terms.

Seems to me the better conversion is the one posted by Sonic 1954, and others. That mod uses a 30 amp plug, and makes a full 30 amps available at one outlet. I have performed this mod, and It will run my AC andMicrowave at the same time, plus whatever other misc. draws I may have running.

[mokanmikey]

A question on the Champion, I am getting ready to do the rewire as outlined by camperdave on page 184 and would like one thing explained in easy layman terms.

What am I gaining by doing this? Everything seems to run fine now with the trailer plugged into the generator using a standard adapter into the 20amp receptacle.

Has anyone measured the output before and after the mod?

Reading this post and seeing all the talk of rewiring makes the reader think we should do this automatically. Should we?

Thanks in advance!
Confused :?

P.S., professor, if a good answer is given you might add it to the Edit on Page one of your post to explain to newbies the benefit of this modification. JMHO
Thanks

[whopkin1]

AZ_Ron wrote:
Thanks guys...that's how i have it connected to the house now.
I'm going to see if I can find an ELM or Champion this weekend while I am out an about... If I can, I can take this one back, as I have not put oil or gas in it yet. I wish this manual had been available online!
I will do some looking into how the AC is connected. I think it's factory and runs through a small breaker/fuse box in the rear of the rv.

Thanks again guys!

Ron

It is available online.
From your hints (particularly a "Harbor Freight" purchase) I gleened that you had SKU 90236 (a 9HP, 4400W peak/4000 W running genset).
Then I looked at the manual from the HF website, it's in .PDF so you need Adobe Acrobat Reader, but it's online here:

Harbor Freight Generator for SKU 90236
Of course, it's just a copy of the manual you've got in your hands.

[boucher1]

professor95 wrote:

BTW - what type of meter are you measuring voltage with?

The meter is a Sperry digital DM-41OOA. Is it OK?


Thanks

Roger

[AZ_Ron]

Thanks guys...that's how i have it connected to the house now.
I'm going to see if I can find an ELM or Champion this weekend while I am out an about... If I can, I can take this one back, as I have not put oil or gas in it yet. I wish this manual had been available online!
I will do some looking into how the AC is connected. I think it's factory and runs through a small breaker/fuse box in the rear of the rv.

Thanks again guys!

Ron

[whopkin1]

AZ_Ron wrote:
Hi guys... heres the wiring diagram from the 4000W Generator from Harbor Freight with the Robin Subaru engine. I'm no electrician, but would like to know if the adapter that joins both 110v receptacles to up the amperage would work with this. If not, I'll return it and see if I can find a champion or ELM... The specs say each outlet has a 15A breaker.
Also, if the adapter will work, where can I find one?? I saw a pic on a site, but foolishly neglected to book mark it.

Thanks all!!!!!

Ron
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f383/AZ_Ron/genwiring.jpg

From the looks of just this schematic, I would NOT attempt to stick a duplex outlet to single 30A adapter on it. It looks like you have 240 VAC between each outlet's "hot" lead, and the adapter would short them together, tripping one or both breakers in short (as in circuit) order.
Rewiring would be extensive, to the point of kissing any warranty you have good-bye. Read through the past few months though, folks have done similiar.
That's not to say you can't use this generator as it comes. It depends a lot on how accessible your RV is to a separate extension cord, and whether your air conditioner has a plug on it or is hardwired into a panel. If you could run a separate extension cord to run the A/C from one of this generator's outlets, you could probably get by with a 15A outlet to 30A plug adapter plugged into the other generator's outlet.

[whopkin1]

AZ_Ron wrote:
Crap... I can't seem to get the picture to post...
Hopefully that link will work...

R

It's easily missed, but the "Image" icon looks like a yellow postcard above the reply box, and the hyperlink (to make your URL clickable from the message) icon looks like a globe with a sideways figure eight.

I'll fix both your picture and the link "this time".
First, the link:
Ron's link, now clickable.
Now the picture:


Edited to reduce picture width.

[AZ_Ron]

Crap... I can't seem to get the picture to post...
Hopefully that link will work...

R

[AZ_Ron]

Hi guys... heres the wiring diagram from the 4000W Generator from Harbor Freight with the Robin Subaru engine. I'm no electrician, but would like to know if the adapter that joins both 110v receptacles to up the amperage would work with this. If not, I'll return it and see if I can find a champion or ELM... The specs say each outlet has a 15A breaker.
Also, if the adapter will work, where can I find one?? I saw a pic on a site, but foolishly neglected to book mark it.

Thanks all!!!!!

Ron
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f383/AZ_Ron/genwiring.jpg