3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Icecutter]

Hello all,,, I took the plunge after reading through all 200 plus pages about the chinese gensets. I was interested in the blue Jing Dong Homier unit which is rated at 2800-3000 watts and peak at 4000. I was mainly interested in the rated watts.

I purchased my unit from a E-bay seller called IPS-SPORTS. Ebay # 7617279941. The pictures are identical to the Jing Dong Homier one BUT I received a unit which is made by a different manufacturer. I think it is JDW or something like that but I need to recheck.

I am unhappy with this unit and I have a question for professor or anyone who may know. This is my situation:

I wanted this unit because it was said that the Jing Dong "Homier" units will run full power to both of the only two 110V outlets on this unit without modification. But what I received is not a Jing Dong eventhough the picture in the auction is identical to the Blue JD unit. My unit is almost identical but I have a different breaker on mine from the JD Homier unit. I cannot run one of the heavy load items which I wanted to use with this Genset which is in addition to camping related items.

This is my problem >>>>> The heavy load item is a Thermal Dynamics 110V 20Amp plasma cutter. When I try to use the plasma cutter, the voltage meter on the genset falls to about 90 volts and the plasma cutter will shut off everytime. I contacted the manufacturer of this plasma cutter and they said many people use these plasma cutters on a generator. I was told it should be no problem with my rated 2800watt genset but this is not the case.

***** This is my question to the professor or anyone who may know how to answer this, Is it possible to rewire a 110V two outlet genset so it will supply full power to both of the two only existing outlets on a unit of this type?? This unit only has two 25Amp 110Volt outlets.

Acording to the genset's voltmeter, it seems like I am pulling down the voltage way too much and this is why I am having this problem. I have read on one of the past 206 pages that rewiring the genset for full power will help keep the voltage from pulling down but I do not know where it is located and I do not know if it applies to a genset like mine with the two 110V outlets only.

Sorry for the long post but I am at wits end and I am now on the brink of one of the biggest camping holidays of the year. Thank-you soo very much for any help as it means alot. Icecutter

[okiebryan]

I am looking for the Champion C46540. I am near Oklahoma City, OK. I need it for this weekend. Any idea where I can buy one locally?

Failing that, what is my best choice for one that can be adapted externally to run my RV with 30A service? I don't feel qualified to make internal mods.

Please help.

[TeamSlacker]

over a year in service now with my powerwise with only the following problems.

new spark plug (was missing and starting very hard)
new recoil rope (see above lol)
(both above were not the real problem)
It started as just a slight miss while running, progressed to starting hard, to finally not starting at all. Checked all the normal, changed plug, unpluged the low oil sensor.. bam.. back to starting on first pull (and yes I did check oil level, and check it every time i fuel)

So Rich, you might want to try just disconnecting your oil sensor.

[professor95]

On another note, I checked the noise level with a friend's meter and found it to be 74dB at 7m. Anyone else finding this?

How is your friend's meter weighted? There are two scales used to measure sound levels. For the generators, we normally use the weighting. The scale is closer to the frequencies that the human ear is sensitive to and is more accurate for soun...





.

Experiment with location and nearby sound absorbing objects, you will be pleased with the differenc...

[Rich_Rock]

Thanks for the input. Will check out the oil level when I get home today. On another note, I checked the noise level with a friend's meter and found it to be 74dB at 7m. Anyone else finding this?

[Tonka_Truck]

Low oil (or bad switch) will kill it in about 10min also.

[Oldfordman]

toprudder wrote:
It could also be the tank cap is not venting properly. Runs for a while, draws fuel from the tank, and if no air can enter the tank then the vacuum will prevent fuel from flowing to the carb. Try opening the tank cap slightly to see if it keeps running.

Bob R.

professor95 wrote:

Elim 3000 stalling after running 10 minutes.

Runs fine for 10 minutes, then idles irregularly. If load is connected, generator will stall. Checked spark plug and wire - OK. Fuel lines and air filter unobstructed. Any ideas?

-Rich

The key symptom seems to be "runs 10 minutes". This is enough time for the engine to get hot and pass that heat to other components, like the ignition module. It could be breaking down at that point. Other than that, I have no clue. Maybe some other ideas will be posted.

Since the engine is a Honda GX200 clone, you should be able to obtain service parts at a number of locations.

Another often overlooked problem is "vapor lock". The fuel system is vulnerable to heat. Look carefully at the routing of the fuel line and make sure that there is lots of ventilation. If the carb fuel bowl is overheated it will boil the fuel. There will be enough fuel present to run the engine under light or no load but when the throttle kicks in to answer a full load it will stall.

Remember that most gasoline today has ethanol in it. Up to 10% by volume. It tends to raise the vapor pressure of the fuel (a long-winded way of saying it vapor locks sooner).

Make sure that there is plenty of air flow over the muffler which is the greatest source of heat in a portable generator. If possible, take a cooling fan, plug in to generator and direct cooling air at carb and fuel line area. See if problem goes away with the extra cooling. If so, you might have to add a simple heat shield to the muffler. This will keep the radiant heat from the muffler from cooking the fuel system. Can't hurt to keep it off the remainder of the unit too.

[Tonka_Truck]

Rich, not wanting to be like the tech that asks "is it plugged in", I'll take a chance and ask about the oil level. Mine was doing the same, the oil level with use had gotten low enough to activate the "kill switch", but I could see oil on the stick so didn't connect at first that was why it was dying.

[toprudder]

It could also be the tank cap is not venting properly. Runs for a while, draws fuel from the tank, and if no air can enter the tank then the vacuum will prevent fuel from flowing to the carb. Try opening the tank cap slightly to see if it keeps running.

Bob R.

professor95 wrote:

Elim 3000 stalling after running 10 minutes.

Runs fine for 10 minutes, then idles irregularly. If load is connected, generator will stall. Checked spark plug and wire - OK. Fuel lines and air filter unobstructed. Any ideas?

-Rich

The key symptom seems to be "runs 10 minutes". This is enough time for the engine to get hot and pass that heat to other components, like the ignition module. It could be breaking down at that point. Other than that, I have no clue. Maybe some other ideas will be posted.

Since the engine is a Honda GX200 clone, you should be able to obtain service parts at a number of locations.

[professor95]

Hi, I'm a newbie here.
I bought a Wen PowerPro 3500 after reading this thread for a while (Menards - $279 - $25 rebate). I bought a Coleman wheel kit, but it is meant for square tube rods, not round. Is there a way to retrofit? Could I attach some square tubes to the round somehow and then attach the Coleman kit?

The Champion generator is similar - round tubes on the frame and the wheel kit handle requires a square tube. Champion has welded two pieces of flat metal stock to the tubes to give two flat surfaces at the attachment point. Of course, welding to a genny that has (or had) gas in the tank is not a good idea.

Perhaps some angle iron and a few sheet metal screws or nuts and bolts to hold it to the tubing will give you the needed flat surface? Home Depot and Low's carry short pieces of angle iron under the Crown Bolt product name.

[professor95]

Elim 3000 stalling after running 10 minutes.

Runs fine for 10 minutes, then idles irregularly. If load is connected, generator will stall. Checked spark plug and wire - OK. Fuel lines and air filter unobstructed. Any ideas?

-Rich

The key symptom seems to be "runs 10 minutes". This is enough time for the engine to get hot and pass that heat to other components, like the ignition module. It could be breaking down at that point. Other than that, I have no clue. Maybe some other ideas will be posted.

Since the engine is a Honda GX200 clone, you should be able to obtain service parts at a number of locations.

[professor95]

I think your procedure allows me to draw 3000W from one 110V outlet; Do I have to worry about fuses and wires being rated for 30A?

I was just thinking of getting 1500W out from each 110V. If this can be done, I want to run a refrigerator (800W running/1200W start) off of coil #1, and a small AC (5000BTU/10EER/500W running/1000W start?!?) off of coil #2. Is 1500W on each outlet enough to do this? Or do I really need all 3000W to come out from one outlet?

OK, I guess I killed the goat on that one. Back to your original question.... yes, you can use the twist lock outlet to give you two independent 120 volt, 1,500 watt feeds. One circuit will be on the X terminal, the other on the Y terminal. The W terminal will be a common neutral. The G terminal is your grounding leg. Sorry I misunderstood what you wanted to do first time around.

That said, what I gave you will combine both coils so that you can draw full wattage at 120 volts from one outlet. Don't worry about wire sizes inside the generator as the short lengths offset the need for larger gauge conductors. Also, the two 15 amp breakers in the rewire will be parallel in each coil so they are adequate with out replacement.

[Rich_Rock]

Elim 3000 stalling after running 10 minutes.

Runs fine for 10 minutes, then idles irregularly. If load is connected, generator will stall. Checked spark plug and wire - OK. Fuel lines and air filter unobstructed. Any ideas?

-Rich

[professor95]

Professor,

I don't think small outboard engines have fuel pumps, after using the primer bulb I think the vacuum effect of the carb draws more fuel into the system. I don't see why a similar system could not be used on RV's. I could be completely wrong, of course.

You are correct - to a degree. Some small outboards do not have a fuel pump, but the carburetors are the diaphragm type, which does indeed create a vacuum like a fuel pump to draw fuel from a lower point once the fuel line is primed with a squeeze bulb. Of course, I have not seen all small outboards, only the Evinrude, Nissan and Mercury I own.

But, unfortunately, the carburetors on the Chinese generators are not made like the ones on small outboards and do not have the diaphragm.

You know, I like the idea of using a marine tank remotely mounted, but I just don't believe it will work as purchased with a top pick-up. There is a possibility that it might work adequately if equipped with a primer bulb in the fuel line to get fuel flowing and then allow a siphon effect to take over. I have not experimented with it, so I am skeptical.

[sye001]

professor95 wrote:
You will need to separate the two green highlighted wires labeled W and R so you have two independent, unconnected wires. Once this is done you need to bring the W wire out to the Bu wire after the breaker. Then you need to bring the Br wire out to the R wire, also after the breaker. I believe your outlet is a NEMA L14-20. If so, you can then wire the 4 prong outlet for 120 by connecting the W/Bu wire combo to the terminal on the outlet marked W and the Br/R wire combo to the terminal marked X. The wire you have traced in yellow goes to G.

Hi professor, thanks for the quick reply.

I think your procedure allows me to draw 3000W from one 110V outlet; Do I have to worry about fuses and wires being rated for 30A?

I was just thinking of getting 1500W out from each 110V. If this can be done, I want to run a refrigerator (800W running/1200W start) off of coil #1, and a small AC (5000BTU/10EER/500W running/1000W start?!?) off of coil #2. Is 1500W on each outlet enough to do this? Or do I really need all 3000W to come out from one outlet?

If you think 1500W from each side is enough to run the two things, how do I do that rewiring?

If not, I will do what you described previously. I understood your instructions but I am not sure how that deals with the phase issue.

Thanks again.