3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[bobandcat]

Can someone please explain how to post pictures?

As soon as I know how to do it, I'll show pics of the aluminum box that I built in my 5'er with an external muffler setup for my PowerWise 3500.
Thanks.

[MrWizard]

I haven't seen any ADV's for champion in the pepboys flyers

or any Champions at the local pepboys

only ALLPOWER or POWER WISE


10:11pm

we are now the owners of a 'Champion RV ready' #C46540 genset

will test it and mount it tommorrow/Tuesday

[Red_Clay_Ramble]

So are some Pep Boys stocking the Champion now? I'm starting to lose track of which stores are stocking which gens.

[MrWizard]

OK went back to OSH for another look see
( Orchard Home Supply )( for those of you outside calif. OSH is owned 80% by Sears and Kmart owns Sears ) ( OSH has 85 stores in Calif )
mufler says

JIANGSU JIANGDONG LTD

recoil starter cover

xx200
JIANGDONG

back edge of gastank

JD JIANGDONG

JD3000BSTF

front panel
JD emblem

1yr warranty, ALLPOWER LOGO

this is the display model, and there is NO box there ( shipment due on wed )

I stopped at pepboys

the numbers are different but it's the same 'allpower' generator, right down to the 1yr warranty sticker on the front left corner

since the quality thing is more important than the in store warranty

I think i will go buy the Champion , before they sell out

[Walrus127]

I was in Pep Boys Saturday and they had a 3500 watt gen there that looked exactly like my ELM3000 (well like the one I used to have...still have not gotten any where with ELIM International with my situation) I think the price was $349.00. I think when I do replace mine I will look at the Champion, I saw one in Darlington few weeks back and it was much quieter than most gens around it.

[MrWizard]

professor95 wrote:

MrWizard wrote:
the RV ready champion is a little fanncier, but the OSH warranty replacement idea is the deal breaker

if it's not true , then i will buy the champion

After I wrote my comments on the JD unit last night, I began to think about some earlier issues we discussed on the forum.

I rather hurriedly hauled a scope and step-down transformer out to the camper and fired up the Champion. I did not make any photos (but I will). The Champion does not have the defect in the waveform that you previously said looked like a diode going into avalanche. Also, my Samsung mincowave clock does not run at "double speed" from the Champion like it does from the ELM3000.

The Champion has brushes, and as a result what appears to be a more complete voltage regulator (no wiring diagram, so it is hard to tell exactly what is there).

Overall, the output from the Champion is much cleaner than the ELM3000.

whooo-boy

now I have to choose between ouput quality and in-store warranty

I may have to flip a coin,

I have to take a look at that name again

FWIW, it's identical to the one pep boys has in their adv

#APG-3008/TG3000/GG3500

[Tonka_Truck]

REF GENSET PLUG

I'll have to look it back up tonight and post the NEMA number, catalog edition and page number etc.. I recently got the catalog in the mail.

[mokanmikey]

Tonka Truck wrote:
I was reading the new Cabela's catalog last night. They show an RV plug adapter that is Female RV and Male twistlock for the Genset outlet. It gave the NEMA number for the plug, looked like a three prong twist lock to me. This might be the answer for the earlier Champions or other brands. It was a heavier plug than the RV plug adapter to the standard wall socket typesold at Wal-Mart for example.

What is the NEMA number?
The NEMA L14-30 is common on the older Champions.

I'm going to check the Cabela's web site to see if I can find it and will post a link if i find it.
Also, which catalog is it in?

Edit, couldn't find it on Cabelas site 😞

[Tonka_Truck]

I was reading the new Cabela's catalog last night. They show an RV plug adapter that is Female RV and Male twistlock for the Genset outlet. It gave the NEMA number for the plug, looked like a three prong twist lock to me. This might be the answer for the earlier Champions or other brands. It was a heavier plug than the RV plug adapter to the standard wall socket typesold at Wal-Mart for example.

[professor95]

durasmack wrote:
Ran a test tonight of the generator in the box. After 15 minutes, air temp in the box was 210 degrees, generator head 200 degrees, block 260 degrees. pulled it out of the box, cooled it down a little and shut it off. I need to find a way to get the exhaust out of the box. Any sources for the pipe required to move it? I thought about tapping the exhaust port on the box to accept a pipe thread and run black iron pipe outside the box and through the muffler? would this work or would I be causing a different problem by doing so? I think if the 535 degree muffler is out of the box and the exhaust is getting out of the box more efficiently it will run significantly cooler.

-Trey

Getting the muffler out of the box is not as simple as it initially sounds. You can unbolt the muffler, fabricate an extension from 1" electrical conduit and weld or braze on flanges so as to bolt to the engine and extended muffler.

But, this extension acts as a huge lever with a significant mechanical advantage, meaning a 1/4" circular movement of the engine at the exhaust connection point can easily translate to a significant movement at the new muffler mounting point (horizontal application). Therefore, you cannot just "bolt the muffler down" at the new mounting point. One way to allow movement at the muffler is to use a series of springs to suspend the muffler, or perhaps a common rubber isolated muffler hanger. All of these require additional framework as a support structure. Even better is a section of flexible pipe between the engine and muffler to allow movement without cracking a pipe or engine exhaust flange. I've been eyeing several things lying around in my junque boxes. One is some flexible stainless steel sleeving that was used on an old gas grill. Another is some "Greenfield" flexible electrical conduit. The later is not rated liquid tight and thus is probably not exhaust tight - again, I need to do some testing. I have seen other types of flexible tubing that can be used for exhaust pipes in marine applications, Whitney's catalog and even at the local AutoZone. Unfortunately, they are all 1-1/2" or larger in diameter which would require additional welding and adapters.

Yet another thought is to point the muffler straight up, John Deere tractor style, with only a single 90 degree adapter. This negates some of the problems with the length of a pipe in horizontal
movement. But, the fuel tank is in the way! So now we are talking about moving the fuel tank out of the box as well. Truthfully, this isn't really that bad of an idea.

Off-setting the muffler to the left of its current position about 6" would work too. That would require two 90 degree bends and movement of the muffler in relationship to the engine might be easier to contend with.

In any event, you DO NOT want anything that would remount the muffler in a rigid position. It is going to need to move with the engine or have a flexible connection.

Keep brainstorming - that is where great ideas come from! (Think outside of the box - no pun intended :))

[professor95]

By the way- how do you post pictures? Can you just copy them into this window or is there another procedure?

You can get a free account from one of the photo hosting services like photobucket.com (click here.) Upload your photo to the hosting service and paste the url into your message here using the "image" icon in the editor.

[professor95]

MrWizard wrote:
the RV ready champion is a little fanncier, but the OSH warranty replacement idea is the deal breaker

if it's not true , then i will buy the champion

After I wrote my comments on the JD unit last night, I began to think about some earlier issues we discussed on the forum.

I rather hurriedly hauled a scope and step-down transformer out to the camper and fired up the Champion. I did not make any photos (but I will). The Champion does not have the defect in the waveform that you previously said looked like a diode going into avalanche. Also, my Samsung mincowave clock does not run at "double speed" from the Champion like it does from the ELM3000.

The Champion has brushes, and as a result what appears to be a more complete voltage regulator (no wiring diagram, so it is hard to tell exactly what is there).

Overall, the output from the Champion is much cleaner than the ELM3000.

[dash8wrench]

In order to most effectively remove the exhaust heat from an enclosure, it would seem to me the most beneficial way is to run the exhaust to an externally mounted muffler. After all, the surface area of the muffler is enormous compared to the surface area of the pipe required to get the exhaust gases outside the box. An additional point is that there are exhaust wraps available from hot rod suppliers that will allow for insulating the exhaust pipe within the box to prevent additional heat "loss" inside the enclosure.

One source of heat wrap

[alltenofus]

I took my UST TG3000 from Pep Boys out to the middle of the backyard today and measured with a Metrosonics 307 sound meter. At ear level on the engine side it was 85 dBA, and about 1 dBA less on the muffler side. At 23 ft (7meters) the measurements at ear level were 65 dBA on the muffler side and 66 on the engine side. With a 5'9' by 3'9" by 3/4" thick piece of cardboard standing upright between the generator and the meter the sound was reduced 8dBA on either side. This cardboard was free from the Sears box pile. So with a simple shield the sound was reduced to 58 dBA. Next I'll build a box but want to monitor temperatures with and without. I suspect that the open ended box the Professor built will be a good design - with four sides you will need a fan and some vents. Problem is, even if your engine doesn't overheat enough to quit from metal expansion, you can be frying your oil, leading to premature engine wear. So my goal will be to maintain normal out of the box temperatures.

By the way- how do you post pictures? Can you just copy them into this window or is there another procedure?

[durasmack]

Ran a test tonight of the generator in the box. After 15 minutes, air temp in the box was 210 degrees, generator head 200 degrees, block 260 degrees. pulled it out of the box, cooled it down a little and shut it off. I need to find a way to get the exhaust out of the box. Any sources for the pipe required to move it? I thought about tapping the exhaust port on the box to accept a pipe thread and run black iron pipe outside the box and through the muffler? would this work or would I be causing a different problem by doing so? I think if the 535 degree muffler is out of the box and the exhaust is getting out of the box more efficiently it will run significantly cooler.

-Trey