3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrWizard]

flamingoland wrote:
honestly, only bought 1.5 gallons (that's what size tank was brought, the little red plastic gas can), ran it on and off from friday night through sunday night, and still had a little in the generator tank.....ran the A/C from 7-10 pm last night, along with the DVD/TV, friday night, ran the A/C with the DVD/TV from about 8-10 pm, and saturday, ran it during the day a bit (maybe 1-2 hours) and again at night for maybe a couple of hours.....no lie, couldn't have gone and gotten gas if i wanted to (unless i wanted to sit in an hour or 2 of traffic to get back onto the track) and it was well over 90 degrees all weekend.....

(1) can of gas 1.5 gal,

and how big is the tank on the generator ?

and how much gas was already in that tank when you started the weekend ?

I think your budddies are playing tricks on you, filling the genny tank while you are watching the race

i remember a movie with walter mattau and carol burnet

where he and their son were putting gas in the neighbors VW everynight

the neighbor thought he was getting 100 miles to the gallon

then they started syphoning gas everynight

untill the neighbor thought he was only getting 10 miles to the gallon

gave the guy a nervous breakdown trying to figure out what went wrong with his BUG

[happykampr]

And WHERE did this little jewel come from Flamingo?

[flamingoland]

honestly, only bought 1.5 gallons (that's what size tank was brought, the little red plastic gas can), ran it on and off from friday night through sunday night, and still had a little in the generator tank.....ran the A/C from 7-10 pm last night, along with the DVD/TV, friday night, ran the A/C with the DVD/TV from about 8-10 pm, and saturday, ran it during the day a bit (maybe 1-2 hours) and again at night for maybe a couple of hours.....no lie, couldn't have gone and gotten gas if i wanted to (unless i wanted to sit in an hour or 2 of traffic to get back onto the track) and it was well over 90 degrees all weekend.....

[MrWizard]

it was hot as all heck, so it ran almost all evening (from about 5 to the 10 pm curfew) with the air on full,

it used about 1.5 gallons of gas over the 3 nights

1.5 gallons of gas ? for the weekend

that must be one easy going A/C unit

either i bought the wrong gnerator, OR your numbers are wroong

i get about 6 hours on a gallon just charging batteries

with the A/C on its about 2.5 hrs a gallon.. maybe

your saying you went over 10hrs with A/C, and only used 1.5 gallons of gas,

I find that 'very hard to belive'

PS:

i'm doing a little better than i thought, got 10hrs out of this last 3 gallon tank of gas

[nsbat7]

No oil incidents in this side so far with my proforce 3125... I read 20 oz of oil in the book and went for it ... so far... so goooooood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ns

[Mr__Tommy]

Yeah, I'm not impressed with how you're supposed to add oil. It's easy to overfill, and the 'dipstick' is at such a horizontal angle that one side reads full and the other darned near empty.

But - this is only a small complaint. The rest of the unit is absolutely fantastic. I just don't think you can beat these things for the price.

[flamingoland]

just checking back in, took the powerpro 3250 to NASCAR this weekend in NH, it was hot as all heck, so it ran almost all evening (from about 5 to the 10 pm curfew) with the air on full, a TV with DVD running, a couple of lights, the fridge, etc., didn't run the microwave, it didn't whine a bit, also needed to keep the battery up (need a new one i guess, kept running down pretty easily), it used about 1.5 gallons of gas over the 3 nights (and was on a bit during the daytime), started on the first pull each time, wasn't any louder than anything else around us, in fact, it was quieter than most of what we could hear, the hondas are VERY quiet though ;), still not worth the 2-3X price tag......

it did blow some oil out the exhaust the first night it ran (was the longest it's run since bought) but it wasn't doing that after the first night, i think i mentioned that there was no line for filling the oil and initially we overfilled the oil (it wouldn't run and was spraying oil everywhere, dripping out of the filter, etc), so now i'll change the oil for the winter, tried to run it dry last night, but curfew came sooner than running out of gas!

[MrWizard]

connor2002 wrote:
Price update on C46540 in Phoenix



I was looking in this weeks Checker insert ad and it was $329, however they had a R.O.P. ad in the sports section and it was listed @299 in the AZ Republic.

I gave $329 + tax and , we are very happy with our purchase

$299, better grab it if you want one

IMO right now these are the best buy for the dollar

of course the bigger champions also have the 'electronic voltage regulator " and good quality if you NEED more power

but 3500 continious 4000 surge, 29.2 amps continious built in RV recp

it's a great buy

[professor95]

dash8wrench wrote:
Interesting info there professor. Are you speaking of the core of the electrical generating plant or the core (rotating and reciprocating components) of the engine itself?

The core of the electrical generating plant.

Let's take alook at the temperature issue a moment:

While I am not positive, I strongly feel like the insulation used in the windings of the generator(s) is FORMVAR. This insulation material is rated for temperatures up to 105 degrees C or 221 degrees F. You can look at specs for the insulation here .

All of the plastic jacketed wire in the generator and front panel appears to be THHN, which is a heat resistant thermoplastic rated for a maximum temperature of 90 degrees C or 194 degrees F.

Both the stator and rotor of the generator (actually, it’s an alternator) need to be kept within these temperature ranges to assure longevity as the insulation will begin to break down at excessive temperatures and eventually fail.

As current demand increases in the generator so does the temperature due to the resistance of the wiring used. There are two other factors that also increase temperature we have never discussed – eddy currents and hystersis.

Anyway, awhile back I made some temperature measurements of the generator (NOT the engine) using a non-contact infrared thermometer as a prelude to building an enclosure for sound abatement. As expected, as current demands increased to a value approaching the maximum rated run current, the temperature of the generator began to rise dramatically.

Now, my recommendation to reduce the continuous run rating by at least 200 watts for each 5 degree rise in temperature above an ambient of 85 degrees F is more of a “seat of the pants” advisory rather than a scientific, exact calculation. I did do a little math with BTUs, watts and temperature at the time, but I did not write it down – thus, I would have to repeat the tests to give you exact numbers.

The bottom line is that if the outside temperature is 100 degrees F you should limit your load accordingly. For example, if the continuous run current is rated at 2,800 watts ( 23 amps) it would be wise to reduce your maximum run current by at least 600 watts to 2200 watts or 18 amps. BTW, this load is within the limits imposed by a single RV air conditioner. I also believe that these considerations should be applied to any brand of generator as a precaution to avoid an early demise of the generator (not the engine).

[Mr__Tommy]

When I bought mine at Kragen (and who buys generators at an auto supply house???), the ad stuck to the side of the box said it was $299 with the "coupon". I told the guy I didn't have a coupon and he said, "Hey man, it's $299 for you.."

[connor2002]

Price update on C46540 in Phoenix



I was looking in this weeks Checker insert ad and it was $329, however they had a R.O.P. ad in the sports section and it was listed @299 in the AZ Republic.

[Mr__Tommy]

I'm not sure how much "altitude" you need for testing, but I live in Carson City and our town sits about 5,000 feet. I bought my Champion (Model 46540) about two weeks ago (and it took three pulls to get it going - because I forgot to flip the switch to "ON" - DUH...).

I haven't taken it on a trip yet but I quickly oiled it up and gave it a test run on my travel trailer (which is why I bought it). My A/C is an 11,000 btu unit and it ran without so much as a hiccup. The owner's manual for the A/C called for a minimum of 2500 watts so the 3500 the Champion puts out is more than enough.

I'm sure another 2,000 feet will make little or no difference. Fire it up and love it. 😉

[dogzpaws]

Well, after much research and deliberation, I went with the Champion over the Honda, Yamaha, and Kipor. It came down to price and usage. I figure, I'll only be using a handful of times a year when I NEED AC. And when you need AC, all your doors and windows will be closed along with a noisy AC unit. Further, I'll be mitigating for sound by either constructing a simple enclosure or leaving in the bed of my truck under a canopy. My inlaws have an Onan on their class A and I'm finding this generator to be comparable to that when the sound is attenuated.

I did find that it didn't start on the first pull, it started on the second pull. Every start since then, first pull. I'll be taking it to Perris today to fire up the AC and make sure everything works (expecting 110+ degrees today). I am curious if anyone has taken these units to altitude - I've got a trip to Big Bear (So Cali) planned and would be looking at running AC at 7,000 feet. Curious if it will work that high. Anyone remember the reduction of wattage per 1,000 feet?

[MrWizard]

professor95 wrote:

MrWizard wrote:
102 degrees yesterday

the RV ready & the A/C, are working nicely togethere

I am glad you are pleased with your new generator. Some interesting trivia...... After some on-line research I discovered Champion OWNS the Chinese plant where their generators are built. This plant does NOT make generators for other vendors. My reaction to this is that in all likelyhood, this would increase quality control. I have not found any other North American vendor that owns their own manufacturing facility in China.

As an "old motor man" I am sure you know to reduce the run wattage on your generator by about 200 watts for every 5 degrees F above 85 degrees ambient temperature to lessen the chance of getting the core over 195 degrees F. It is a good precaution to take to assure a long life for your unit.

well the genny is in the shade ( not always possible )

the only things drawing from the generator are the A/C unit about 15 amps

and the WFCO conveter and it's in absorbtion mode measureing 13.52 at the battery 4.0 amps

that's less than 50 watts output, with the coresponding low level input, i should be within your figures

it's 103 outside which gives me about 2500 running watts available using your safety figures

if I need the MW, I turn the A/C compressor off for the duration leaving the blower going

OH yeah 60 watts 1/2 amp @ 120, for the laptop

[dash8wrench]

professor95 wrote:

As an "old motor man" I am sure you know to reduce the run wattage on your generator by about 200 watts for every 5 degrees F above 85 degrees ambient temperature to lessen the chance of getting the core over 195 degrees F. It is a good precaution to take to assure a long life for your unit.

Interesting info there professor. Are you speaking of the core of the electrical generating plant or the core (rotating and reciprocating components) of the engine itself?

I just assembled a cargo carrier from HF (the aluminum one, $50.95 with 20% off coupon) and did some initial measuring for installation on the back bumper of the 5er. I was initially going to install the reciever tube ($14.95 from Northern Tools) under the bumper and it's brace, but was concerned about ground clearance when gong into and out of steep drives or parking areas. Decided to explore installation above bumper. Gives a three fold improvement- increased ground clearance, allows carrier to mount closer to body of trailer, and allows reciever tube to be welded to more substantial structure on trailer frame and bumper standoff brace.

I will have to narrow the carrier itself a bit to keep the outboard end from protruding too far past the trailer body, but it's only pop rivets to drill out, shorten the cross members and then rerivet it back together. This does cause the generator to sit higher, partially obscuring the light and tag, so I'm thinking of moving the tag bracket to the LH tail light and putting an auxiliary light assembly (stop and tail) on the carrier. That would probably be a good move in any case. I'll upload pics when I get further along, after getting the receiver tube welded on the frame.