3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[TrailHead]

After a recent power outage, I found myself in the market for a portable generator. I was determined to get a Honda and so began to research the net for info. That led me to Yamaha & I eventually wandered into RV.net.

I read about 150 pages worth of 3000W Chinese Gensets Info and was enlightened. I commented to my wife about the practical/pragmatic info I found and summarized by saying, “Those are my people.”

In summary, I am eternally grateful for the info & effort expended by a few here to make this the world’s premier place for just the type of info I was after. But, alas, one last question is unanswered.

I purchased a Champion 46540 (thank you) from PartsAmerica and used the 10% off coupon code (thank you). I found a seller (great deal) for hour-meters on eBay. I got a Hobbs LR 42455 which is an older version of their 20007-17 = Two screw / 240 volt / 60 hertz / single phase meter. The wiring diagram instructs to “connect meter across two high sides of the line. Do not connect the neutral wire to the meter.”

My question: I’d planned to run two hot leads from the twistlock outlet to the meter. Is this best practice? Does anyone have experience wiring this meter to the 46540? Where is the best place on the genset to locate the meter? I was going to locate on the control panel but had concerns about clearances/warranty etc.

Thank again to all for the informative forum.

[Katdaddy]

professor95 wrote:
There have been several discussions on sound abatement enclosures recently. I thought I would revisit the concept and throw out my efforts to achieve sound reduction.

Back in September I got a wild hair and decided to build a sound reduction enclosure for my old(er) ELM3000.

Objective #1 was to use materials I had around the Ranch rather than go out and buy new stuff.

I scrounged up some old Formica covered 3/4" plywood, sound matting that goes under the carpet for a car, a GM heater fan, scrap aluminum sheets, perforated HVAC grills and assorted plywood.

I posted some of the project photos in September but took them back down after several forum members suggested that it was not good thinking on my part. Actually, 5 months later I have lost interest in the project and don't care who copies what.

There are about 50 photos that you can view here.

I am not too good on these photo hosting service things so everything is backwards. If you start at the first photo it won't make any sense at all, thus start with the last photo and move in that direction.

Your first view will be thumbnails. Click on the thumbnails and you will get larger images you can page through.

Now, the essence of the project was to move as much air as I could while baffling sound. The "big" success was isolating the air intake on the engine shroud side from the mechanical noise of the engine. Without that, it would be just a box. Air comes in the bottom, is pulled thru the enclosure by the engine fan and aux fan and out the front. Note that airflow is "normal" across the cylinder fins and is routed over the generator before exiting.

Truth is, I never finished it. I did test it by duct taping on the front and top panels. Overall sound was reduced to a pleasant 59 dB. Temps stayed low. Problem #1 was the aluminum shield I used for the muffler chamber got warm enough to soften the glue on the matting. Maybe in retrospect it would be best not to use the aluminum as a heat sink.

Problem #2 was fuel delivery. I ended up using a 2-4 psi automotive fuel pump pulling from a remote tank. Even that was too much fuel pressure and the float bowl on the engine spilled fuel. I used an available 3 terminal voltage regulator to turn the fuel pump down to 4.5 volts. That worked fine.

The ELM3000 does not have a 12VDC winding. I needed to borrow 120 volts and feed it to a fairly sturdy step down transformer (also Junk) with a full wave bridge using 10 amp diodes to power the heater fan motor.

The assembly is pretty heavy and not really weather resistant. But, it will fit on the rear carrier of my trailer and can be covered with a small BBQ grill cover.

If you have questions, I will be glad to try and respond. Do not be disappointed if I am slow. Right now is extremely busy at the college and time is scarce.

Feel free to borrow, modify and experiment as you wish with these ideas. It is far from perfected and needs more work. Just remember, my goal was NOT to go out and buy new materials. Starting the project from scratch with new stuff could get expensive. (It might be better to buy a quiter Inverter gensetif that is the case. 🙂

I'll throw this out to anybody who can answer; What comes out of the 12 v plug on the Elim 3000 if it does not have a 12 v winding? I am still toying with a sound enclosure for mine and thought I would plug a 12 v fan into this outlet. Not a good idea?????

[justawingin]

Oldfordman wrote:
Didn't know what or how much you wanted to tackle on your own but I thought I'd share the "how to".

Sure beats having to go back to the store and the possible hassle.

Yep, I'm living proof that any monkey with a screwdriver and two brain cells to rub together can clean the carb jet on one of these. :B

By the way, WEN Power's customer service is a joke. You call the customer support number, leave your name and number and wait for a call back. I called them Monday...I'm still waiting... 😞

Earl

[Oldfordman]

justawingin wrote:
Thanks Oldfordman,

I pulled the jet and even though I didn't see anything that may have clogged it I shot a little compressed air through the holes. It runs 100% percent now, just a little hiccup when a load is applied and then it steadies right down.

Thanks again!

Earl

Didn't know what or how much you wanted to tackle on your own but I thought I'd share the "how to".

Sure beats having to go back to the store and the possible hassle.

[justawingin]

Thanks Oldfordman,

I pulled the jet and even though I didn't see anything that may have clogged it I shot a little compressed air through the holes. It runs 100% percent now, just a little hiccup when a load is applied and then it steadies right down.

Thanks again!

Earl

[Oldfordman]

justawingin wrote:
Hi All,

I unplugged everything and plugged in a 1500 watt heater. Whoa! Generator started surging like crazy. It would not settle down until I turned the heater off. Turned the heater back on and it started surging again. I moved the choke from the open position to the halfway position and the generator settled back into a steady purr. I moved the choke back to the open position and the surging started again.

When a small engine behaves like this it is an indication that there is insufficient fuel. There may be a small blockage of the main jet. To access, turn off fuel, remove drain plug on carb bowl, remove carb bowl and then the main jet. The main jet located in the center of carb, above where the bolt that holds the bowl on screws in. Insert a flat blade screwdriver up the hole and remove the jet. Clean the jet with compressed air and a wooden toothpic. Inspect the jet by holding up to the light. The hole should appear round with no obstructions.

It is not uncommon for a small piece of dirt or metal to get lodged in here on a new engine.

Reassemble and open fuel. Start and check operation. If still erratic, check attaching bolts of carb as a vacuum leak can also cause this.

These two issues are the most common on small engines that will not maintain a load.

I had a Honda do this to me a year ago and it was a small piece of material that looked like sawdust. Cleaned the jet and no more problem.

[justawingin]

Hi All,

Wow! This must be the definitive site on the internet for these Chinese made generators! Thanks to professor for starting this thread and to all that have contributed their time and knowledge.

I picked up a WEN Power Power Pro generator from PEP Boys last week and finally had a chance to try it this past Saturday. Gave it a quick once over and the only thing I found was that one of the rubber feet on the frame was loose. Everything else looked good with no other loose parts.

Put in oil and gas and it fired right up. I let it run 4 or 5 minutes and plugged in a 100 watt lamp. So far so good. I spent the next 10 or 15 minutes plugging in various low power loads (house fan, small battery charger, UPS, etc.) and it just purred along. Okay, the UPS didn’t like it but I didn’t expect it to, it would have just been a bonus if it had worked.

I unplugged everything and plugged in a 1500 watt heater. Whoa! Generator started surging like crazy. It would not settle down until I turned the heater off. Turned the heater back on and it started surging again. I moved the choke from the open position to the halfway position and the generator settled back into a steady purr. I moved the choke back to the open position and the surging started again.

Does anyone have any idea what the problem might be? Also, does anyone have any experience with WEN Power customer support?

Thanks in advance.

Earl

I should have said it's the 3500D, 3000 watts continuous 3500 watts peak.

[bobandcat]

Oldfordman wrote:
I will be using a 20W-50 synthetic in my genset because I don't want to have to change oil every time I travel to a different climate. If I leave my house where the average temp is in the 60's and travel through the Mountains, to Desert, out to the Coast, and back home, I would have to carry 4 different grades of oil in order to follow the manual to the letter.

I exchanged e-mails with Paul Cole from Champion. He agreed that 20W-50 would be best for me to use in my 46535 Champion for my climate conditions. My ambient temps would range from 30 to 120 degrees F for anywhere that I would travel. Single grade oils are not always available in 40W or 50W. Therefore the 20W-50 will be used year-round with no further thinking required.

[Oldfordman]

extexaco wrote:

Oldfordman wrote:

Yoslick wrote:
"Internal engine tolerances in the Champion engine are not compatible with synthetic oil or synthetic blend."

I find this very hard to understand??

Slick!! (who run's both his Genny's on Amsoil synthetic)

Synthetic Oils are still oil. They do all the things oil do, just resist heat better which will make them last longer. If an oil resists heat better and maintains its viscosity through a wide range of heat, it isn't good for an engine? (Insert comment here that describes the residue in the Bull's Pen).

I will be using a 20W-50 synthetic in my genset because I don't want to have to change oil every time I travel to a different climate. If I leave my house where the average temp is in the 60's and travel through the Mountains, to Desert, out to the Coast, and back home, I would have to carry 4 different grades of oil in order to follow the manual to the letter.

For those that predict an early failure, I have been doing this for years with other generators, pressure washers, lawnmowers, and pumps. What is the MOST IMPORTANT fact here is that the oil be CHANGED regularly. For those that think that the crankcase just has to be full, and adding new oil does all that is necessary, good luck.

For those that are "afraid" of Synthetic Oils (perhaps because you don't understand them) it might be time to remember that this is the 21st century. Things have truly improved since oil was first placed in cans.

I think you may be missing the point. It's not whether Synthetic oil is good, but it's about the tolerances within the engine.
I have a 93 Nissan Pathfinder with 302000 miles on it. Oil changes have been made every 3000 miles with conventional motor oil. I also have a 2001 Toyota Tundra that has 60000 miles on it. I have used Royal Purple in it since break in (8000 miles). I would never at this point in the Pathfinder's life put synthetic oil in it. The engine possibly could not handle the synthetic due to 17 years of wear on the internal parts.
I don't have first hand knowledge of the engine tolerances of the Champion-don't own one. But I think the original comment was about engine tolerances and not on the performance of synthetic oil.

I don't think YOU understand synthetic oils. Perhaps you might read some of the data sheets that are available from every manufacturer of Syn. oils. In short, they are the SAME as dino except for their resistance to heat breakdown. Synthetic Oils are designer oils. They are literally built from scratch to do a job. Dino Oils are "Blended" to accomplish their purpose. As such, one has to settle for compromises.

If what you say was to be true, then that Dodge 318 I changed to Synthetic oil at 170,000 miles (when I bought it) should have fallen apart in no time. In FACT, it is still running today and has over 340,000 miles on it. It is a myth that Synthetic oils will cause an old engine (assuming it was well maintained to begin with) to fall apart. Lots of stories that begin with "I know a guy who---" but no documented cases.

Back to Generators. I will use Synthetic 20W-50 in mine and you are welcome to use whatever you want in yours. I can't think of a better use for synthetics. A small crankcase holding 1/2 quart of oil on average certainly needs an oil that resists temperature.

If you are speaking specifically of tolerances, the generator engine being looser (thus the suggested 30 and 40 weight oils) then take a look at the Castrol Syntec Data sheet for their 20W-50 oil. It has a higher viscosity (thus able to separate metal better in those "loose tolerance" engines) than any of the single grade oils at a temp of 100 deg. Celsius (212 deg F). A full 4 centistoke points higher. As to cost? $5 worth of oil (one quart) will not only do an oil change but most likely provide enough make-up oil, if needed for an entire season.

[Oldfordman]

Yoslick wrote:
"Internal engine tolerances in the Champion engine are not compatible with synthetic oil or synthetic blend."

I find this very hard to understand??

Slick!! (who run's both his Genny's on Amsoil synthetic)

Synthetic Oils are still oil. They do all the things oil do, just resist heat better which will make them last longer. If an oil resists heat better and maintains its viscosity through a wide range of heat, it isn't good for an engine? (Insert comment here that describes the residue in the Bull's Pen).

I will be using a 20W-50 synthetic in my genset because I don't want to have to change oil every time I travel to a different climate. If I leave my house where the average temp is in the 60's and travel through the Mountains, to Desert, out to the Coast, and back home, I would have to carry 4 different grades of oil in order to follow the manual to the letter.

For those that predict an early failure, I have been doing this for years with other generators, pressure washers, lawnmowers, and pumps. What is the MOST IMPORTANT fact here is that the oil be CHANGED regularly. For those that think that the crankcase just has to be full, and adding new oil does all that is necessary, good luck.

For those that are "afraid" of Synthetic Oils (perhaps because you don't understand them) it might be time to remember that this is the 21st century. Things have truly improved since oil was first placed in cans.

[P_J1]

Yoslick wrote:
"Internal engine tolerances in the Champion engine are not compatible with synthetic oil or synthetic blend."

I find this very hard to understand??

Slick!! (who run's both his Genny's on Amsoil synthetic)

Wow:R I am.......

I put Castrol Syntec (blend) SAE 30 in mine after the 5 hour break in time.

I only have about 40 minutes on it since then, I guess I should dump it before spring time?????

I don't understand why this is the case though.........

[Yoslick]

"Internal engine tolerances in the Champion engine are not compatible with synthetic oil or synthetic blend."

I find this very hard to understand??

Slick!! (who run's both his Genny's on Amsoil synthetic)

[jimmyfred]

extexaco wrote:
I thought I would post an update on the performance of my Onan Homesite generator, since it appears all previous postings by forum members who own this Chinese made generator have disappeared from this thread.
I have now put over 350 hours on the generator, and it has yet to give me any problems. I have experienced no oil usage, changing the oil every 50 hours of operation. I would be interested in hearing from other owners of the Homesite generator in order to compare notes.

..........Just curious , does your onan have the automatic idle down on it so it reverts to an idle when there is no load on it ?? thanks , jf

[toprudder]

Mr. Tommy wrote:
Hmmmmm. Well, what be the difference between not attempting to run a ground rod in the ground when boondocking, and not having one when I use my 2500 watt on-board inverter (which I use anytime I'm not in need of A/C)?

None, I suppose.

[Mr__Tommy]

toprudder wrote:

Mr. Tommy wrote:
To you guys talking about the ground rod...

For what it's worth, I've never used any sort of grounding when boondocking. I just start the generator up and let the A/C do its thing. Also, when I check our coaches outlets with a plug tester, everything is fine. Plus, pounding a ground rod into rock hard earth here in Nevada in the summer is almost impossible, and if you did manage to do it, you'd have to leave it there when you left, because getting it back out would be impossible ;).

I have to agree about using a ground rod. If the generator is "floating" then there would be no return path for any type of shock hazard to occur, as long as you do not touch a hot wire AND neutral at the same time. This would be similar to using an isolation transformer.

However, I would want the neutral and ground connected together somewhere between the generator and distribution panel. In case there is a fault in an appliance with a three-prong plug, you would need that connection in order for any type of protective device to trigger, such as a circuit breaker or ground fault outlet. In motorhomes with built-in generators, I believe they have neutral and ground connected at the generator.

Bob R.

Hmmmmm. Well, what be the difference between not attempting to run a ground rod in the ground when boondocking, and not having one when I use my 2500 watt on-board inverter (which I use anytime I'm not in need of A/C)?