3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[SonicLogic]

BORoarke wrote:

toprudder wrote:

SonicLogic wrote:
For every 1,000 feet above sea level your power output decreases by 1%.

Actually, it is worse than that. About 3% per 1000 feet. 😞

Bob R.

What I was taught, reduce the power rating on the label of the generator by 1% for every 1000 feet you are above sea level, 3% for every 1000 ft. above 3000 ft. So basically, if you are at 8,000 ft, your generator's output would be reduced by 18%.

1,000 ft - 1%
2,000 ft - 1%
3,000 ft - 1%
4,000 ft - 3%
5,000 ft - 3%
6,000 ft - 3%
7,000 ft - 3%
8,000 ft - 3%
Total reduction: 18%

This is what I was taught. If this is wrong, please correct me so I know.

Thanks!

Of course, you guys are right and I stand corrected. Suffice it to say that both elevation and high ambient temperatures (anything over 77º F) will reduce the generator output. My real point was that John’s generator is not “over-rated”. It is running well within specifications and perhaps putting out more power than advertised.

[MrWizard]

I can't get over how so many of you have no trouble with the Champion Generator. While I like mine and it seems quiet enough...when I run *only* my AC, the voltage drops to below 100, the AC compressor rattles like crazy and the generator shakes like mad. I have blown 2 voltage regulators as well. I wish I knew why this is happening.

have you tried opening up the A/C unit to get at the wiring, and putting an AMP pro around the one of 120 wires comming in

this could be too much load on the generator from a compressor on the way out ? amping the line and finding out the actual current the A/C is using, would give you a much better Idea of whats going on

[CCTAU]

CCTAU wrote:
OK. Here is what I did to add an RV outlet to my PowerPro 3500 with selector switch. I used jpkiljan's (Thank you John) diagram. Took panel off. Removed plastic cover. Wired 10 ga black to hot (blue), Red to neutral (red) and green to ground. Ran my wires through same hole as existing wires. Located metal box on end with generator. Drilled holes and mounted. Terminated wires as diagram suggested. Used Grill paint to paint box black. Installed cover. Fired up genny. Will plug in pop-up tomorrow. No smoke or issues that I can see. Will follow up later. Sorry for the multiple pics. I couldn't figure out how to create a link for just these pics and not my others.
A big THANK YOU to jpkiljan and MrWizard.

Hooked up the genny with mods to my pop-up with 8000 btu window air and ran fine. Then hooked up my 30 ft trail lite with 13.5 btu air. Turned on just fan first. Then kicked in the A/C on low. After a few minutes turned to high for about 20 minutes. Knocked out the initial heat and then turned on low so it would cycle with less strain. Ran like a champ for 3 hours. Wife said it was too cold for her. And the neighbors were probably tired of hearing it. Mods cost about $10. This generator is on sale at Pep Boys for $249 (with $50 mail in). Great gen for the money. My next project will be to make a free standing exhaust tube out of PVC. I'll post pics of that when I get around to it. Thanks to anyone that supplied advice.

[Broccoli1]

Todd Barney wrote:

Wgeorge11 wrote:
Nice, creative, compact. Do you have a 2nd battery hiding behind the far fuel cell? How do you cover tanks and gen when transporting? Keep us posted on outcome issues.

Just the one battery.

Going to get a vinyl cover for the tanks for use while in this configuration. Probably this one:


Still noodling how to cover gen. When dry, I plan to sometimes run it while underway, so it will be uncovered, then. But when it rains, I'll need something to keep the wet off. Probably will customize a heavy tarp...

This will be for very occasional use, such as my upcoming 2-week trip to SE Utah. Most of my camping is not too far away, to places with hookups. All that I've done here can be unbolted and put back the way it originally was, covered by my factory nose shell.

Champion has a cover

Champion

[BORoarke]

toprudder wrote:

SonicLogic wrote:
For every 1,000 feet above sea level your power output decreases by 1%.

Actually, it is worse than that. About 3% per 1000 feet. 😞

Bob R.

What I was taught, reduce the power rating on the label of the generator by 1% for every 1000 feet you are above sea level, 3% for every 1000 ft. above 3000 ft. So basically, if you are at 8,000 ft, your generator's output would be reduced by 18%.

1,000 ft - 1%
2,000 ft - 1%
3,000 ft - 1%
4,000 ft - 3%
5,000 ft - 3%
6,000 ft - 3%
7,000 ft - 3%
8,000 ft - 3%
Total reduction: 18%

This is what I was taught. If this is wrong, please correct me so I know.

Thanks!

[toprudder]

SonicLogic wrote:
For every 1,000 feet above sea level your power output decreases by 1%.

Actually, it is worse than that. About 3% per 1000 feet. 😞

Bob R.

[freeatlast]

magic43 wrote:
I ordered the Champ Saturday. UPS delivered it today. As per the instruction manual, I ran it 10 minutes W/O a load then plugged the Class C into it. It carried the AC fine. I then added the MW. Still had 122 VAC. I was impressed. I then unplugged from the Champ and into the 4KW Onan. Same voltage and not much less noise. The Champ was heavier than I expected.

This Fall when I load the Outfitter up and head to Colorado, I will leave the Honda EU2000 at home. It's a shame, but at 9000' the EU2000 has trouble carrying the MW or toaster.

I did the RTV job on the flywheel fan and will crank it again tomorrow.

Are there any other quick modifications that I need to do on the Champ?

I can't get over how so many of you have no trouble with the Champion Generator. While I like mine and it seems quiet enough...when I run *only* my AC, the voltage drops to below 100, the AC compressor rattles like crazy and the generator shakes like mad. I have blown 2 voltage regulators as well. I wish I knew why this is happening.

[magic43]

I ordered the Champ Saturday. UPS delivered it today. As per the instruction manual, I ran it 10 minutes W/O a load then plugged the Class C into it. It carried the AC fine. I then added the MW. Still had 122 VAC. I was impressed. I then unplugged from the Champ and into the 4KW Onan. Same voltage and not much less noise. The Champ was heavier than I expected.

This Fall when I load the Outfitter up and head to Colorado, I will leave the Honda EU2000 at home. It's a shame, but at 9000' the EU2000 has trouble carrying the MW or toaster.

I did the RTV job on the flywheel fan and will crank it again tomorrow.

Are there any other quick modifications that I need to do on the Champ?

[SonicLogic]

Your tests confirm the fact that your generator is running just fine. For every 1,000 feet above sea level your power output decreases by 1%. At 5,400 feet above sea level your generator can only be expected to produce 2,838 watts. Therefore it is fully within specifications.

[jpkiljan]

jpkiljan wrote:

. . .
It might be a week or more before I can get my new model up and running and tested under load, but I'll let you know if I can get more than 14 amps out of those combined 15-amp sockets.

--John
. . .

Hello again Scott (yerlizard), I'm back from the mountains and was able to do those load tests on my new PowerPro 3500 Model D (Item #5630) that's still on sale at PepBoys for a little while yet. There's good news and bad. The good news is that you can indeed draw more than 14 amps from the 120 VAC duplex socket on the front panel. The bad news is that the generator is over-rated and mine shouldn't be run with a load of more than 2800 watts (about 23-1/3 amps).

Here's the details:

I used a couple of space heaters, a circular saw, a double slot toaster, my home window-mount air conditioner, and a 'KILL A WATT' Model P4400 power meter which measure voltage, amps and watts (details on www.p3international.com). Also, keep in mind that my home in Arvada, Colorado is at 5400 feet above sea level.

The measured voltage was always 120 VAC +/- 1 volt no matter the load on the generator unless the engine was about to die. However, I noticed that the voltage available at the other end of my 50-foot 16-gauge extension cord would drop to as low as 115 VAC under load--that seems normal to me. Using an analog (low impedance) voltmeter, I saw that there was a little leakage to the chassis ground from both the hot and neutral lines in both the 120 VAC duplex receptacle and the 240/120 VAC receptacle. The leakage was anywhere from between 10 and 50 volts depending upon the range used--the lowest ranges had the lowest voltage measurements. My voltmeters do not let me measure small AC currents. I see this same kind of leakage on vintage radios whose bypass capacitors are getting old. Remember, this model does not have the neutral bonded to the chassis--unlike the Canadian Champion model reported on earlier. There will be more on this in a later post.

With resistive loads (the toaster and heaters), the generator ran fine and without any problem at 2850 watts (24 amps +/-). With a 3000 watt load (25 amps +/-), the engine would instantly slow down to the point it was obviously going to die in about five seconds. Neither of the circuit breakers tripped and this performance is 4 amps away from its rated temporary power. Dropping the load to 2200 watts at the point the motor was about to die didn't help it, but I could get it to recover if I dropped the load to 1500 watts. I only did the high-load testing three times because I didn't want to run the possibility that I might be damaging the voltage regulator.

My circular saw (which just dims the lights in the house for a fraction of a second when I start it up) ran without a problem. It's rated for 9 amps, but it must have a start-up demand of two or three times that. My window air conditioner ran off of the extension chord without any problem as well. However, is only a 6500 BTU unit with a rated current of 6 amps.

I have eight hours on the generator so far and I'm pretty pleased with it. It has started on the first pull every time, except when I forgot to set the choke. Speaking of forgetting, I added little stick-on tags to it to log the hours used, the last time the oil was changed and air filter cleaned, the proper replacement spark plugs, and--probably the most important--the shut-down instructions (disconnect load, idle for three minutes, switch off, then fuel valve off).

Still, the Champion might be a better buy if you can draw full power off of the 120 VAC sockets. I don't know what factory in China makes the Champions (my PowerPro says it's made by Chongqing Hybest Air Tool Company, Ltd.), but I suspect that all of these low-cost 6.5 HP generators are essentially the same in performance and sustainable output. I notice that the Canadian Champion generators also say they have a 2800 watt continuous output. That's no different than what mine is actually capable of doing. Perhaps the Canadian generators (in addition to being sold with their neutral and chassis grounds bonded together) are just rating their generators a little more honestly.

I hope yours runs as well under load as mine does.

--John

[edited to correct a few typos and a few missing words]

[Todd_Barney]

Wgeorge11 wrote:
Nice, creative, compact. Do you have a 2nd battery hiding behind the far fuel cell? How do you cover tanks and gen when transporting? Keep us posted on outcome issues.

Just the one battery.

Going to get a vinyl cover for the tanks for use while in this configuration. Probably this one:


Still noodling how to cover gen. When dry, I plan to sometimes run it while underway, so it will be uncovered, then. But when it rains, I'll need something to keep the wet off. Probably will customize a heavy tarp...

This will be for very occasional use, such as my upcoming 2-week trip to SE Utah. Most of my camping is not too far away, to places with hookups. All that I've done here can be unbolted and put back the way it originally was, covered by my factory nose shell.

[Wgeorge11]

Todd Barney wrote:
Just wanted to show my Champion mounted on the tongue of my TT. Had to re-arrange stuff to make it fit. Still some finish work to do, as well as tie into the electrical at the front of the TT. But I'm happy this is going to fit.

Nice, creative, compact. Do you have a 2nd battery hiding behind the far fuel cell? How do you cover tanks and gen when transporting? Keep us posted on outcome issues.

[Todd_Barney]

Just wanted to show my Champion mounted on the tongue of my TT. Had to re-arrange stuff to make it fit. Still some finish work to do, as well as tie into the electrical at the front of the TT. But I'm happy this is going to fit.

[MrWizard]

looks like a nice neat job

[CCTAU]

OK. Here is what I did to add an RV outlet to my PowerPro 3500 with selector switch. I used jpkiljan's (Thank you John) diagram. Took panel off. Removed plastic cover. Wired 10 ga black to hot (blue), Red to neutral (red) and green to ground. Ran my wires through same hole as existing wires. Located metal box on end with generator. Drilled holes and mounted. Terminated wires as diagram suggested. Used Grill paint to paint box black. Installed cover. Fired up genny. Will plug in pop-up tomorrow. No smoke or issues that I can see. Will follow up later. Sorry for the multiple pics. I couldn't figure out how to create a link for just these pics and not my others.
A big THANK YOU to jpkiljan and MrWizard.