3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[pritch272]

Well, I didn't sell the Generac, but I did fire it up for a while with a load, then changed the oil. I bought a gallon of Pennzoil 10w30 on sale at Advance Auto for < $9, marked it for genny use. Also bought some StaBil

Put oil in the Champion, a little gas and it took about 5 pulls to start it, it didn't start until I took it off choke, thought I would need to choke it to start it. Ran it for about 45 minutes, 30 of that under a small load. Not as quiet as I had hoped, but still a lot quieter than the Generac. I'm definitely going to do a juice like setup on the rear of the FW like the professor and lleopold did, will take some time.

[Kamphiker]

It's been a while since I have posted on this subject and digging through all the threads to see if this has been posted would take a life time.

SAFETY CHECK for these generators. With a major concern to owners of the WEN POWER PRO 3500 models.

The fuel line from the tank to the carb. is very low quality (at least mine was) and should be checked for cracking leaking (mine was starting to leak). I question how much Nitrile is in these hoses to resist oil and aging etc.

Go to your favorite automotive store and purchase 3/16" id (4.8MM) sae 30R7 Fuel/Emission hose. It will cost around $ 1.50 per foot you only need about 6".

Better safe than sorry.

[lotust]

thanks Professor and others for the information. I understand whats going on now. Great forum and members here.

[pritch272]

I have just become the newest member of the club of owners of the Champion C46540.

Contrary to what I was told last week, TSC did not take it out of the box and test run it to make sure it was good. I picked up one still packaged (very nicely at that) complete with banding and Styrofoam.

I bought the 4 year warranty for $49, a no-brainer to say the least.

I'll pick up some dino 10W-30 tomorrow for the initial break-in. Any recommendations on brand?

I want to have a cargo carrier on the back of the FW to carry this and such, that will be the next step, need to have some welding done as the bumper is useless.

This will make the 3rd genny, I'm definately keeping this and the 2000 watt All-Power clone, that is definitely a quiet generator.

Can't wait to hear it. It's gotta be a lot quieter than our Generac 8500/5500 genset, that thing is loud. I see that the neighborhood is having it's monthly garage sales tomorrow, I'm seriously thinking on putting the Generac out and see if there are any takers. If not, I have a powerful home backup genny.

[Old___Slow]

from, old and slow. great idea. surgery for me next week, so not much help from this end. but, jc, do not leave out the flux thing @ 88 mph and the cost per amp @ $4 per gal.

floyd

[ol_Bombero-JC]

.

[professor95]

lotust wrote:
hey guys. I noticed today that some electronics act weird when pluged into the Power Pro 3500. For example. My house hold digital alarm clock blinks in a moris code type fashon when I plug it in. Also my house hold fan makes a hum when it running on gen power.


Does this generator just put out crappy power? My honda EU1000i does not reproduce there weid problems.


Thanks. Sorry if this has been talked about. I checked the gen with a multimeter and its putting out 120v.

This is an issue that has been extensively discussed in the past. With the size of this thread, I realize it is darn near impossible to go back and find such info.

Contrary to what JContaster said, it is not DIGITAL electronics that have problems with distortion in mechanical generators; it is the old SYNCROUNIOUS devices that depend upon the 60 HZ wave to provide a "clock" as a reference.

That said, the clock you reference might be considered digital. In reality that so called digital device doesn’t have its own internal clock but depends on the AC line frequency. Other appliances that may show problems are microwave ovens. The microwave timer in my TT when powered from my ELM3000 runs at double speed. When powered from my Champion 40008, all is well. Difference is in the waveform.

I posted these three images a long time ago. Take a look.








You will notice that the AC waveform on the ELM3000 (brand X) has a dip before the peak.

Your genny most likely also has a dip before the peak. Many gensets such as the Power Pro and the dual voltage Champions have this dip (distortion). The newer single voltage (120 VAC only) Champs like those sold at NAPA, Lowe's and Home Depot do not show the dip. The appliances you referenced look at this as a clock pulse, thus interpret the signal to be 120 HZ rather than 60 HZ.

JConstar is correct in saying that the Honda and other inverter gennys provide a cleaner sine wave and if you absolutely must have that waveform then you should spend the additional hundreds of $$$$ to get it. But, 90+% of true current digital electronics use internal switching power supplies and could care less what the waveform looks like. For that matter, the voltage range is of minor importance as well. Computers, phone chargers, TV sets and DVD units are all devices that use switching power supplies – unless they are from the Stone Age. RV air conditioner's also work quite well of of the so called "dirty power".

[MrWizard]

would that particular genny be 'brushless'

the brushless models do not have avr ( electronic Automatic Voltage Regulation )

and operate differently than models with avr's

[JConatser]

Yeah, it'll measure 120V with a multimeter; if you looked at the AC waveform on an oscilloscope, though, you would see that it's not a nice sinusoidal shape. It's not unusual for digital type electronics especially to exhibit the kind of behavior you describe when powered by such "dirty" power. Your Honda uses a different type of generator technology than your Power Pro, and thus delivers a cleaner, more sinusoidal waveform.

[lotust]

hey guys. I noticed today that some electronics act weird when pluged into the Power Pro 3500. For example. My house hold digital alarm clock blinks in a moris code type fashon when I plug it in. Also my house hold fan makes a hum when it running on gen power.


Does this generator just put out crappy power? My honda EU1000i does not reproduce there weid problems.


Thanks. Sorry if this has been talked about. I checked the gen with a multimeter and its putting out 120v.

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
oh, those were the days, my friend, those were the days.

(If I may finish the sentence)

"oh, those were the days, my friend, those were the days", I might have made 50 cents an hour in wages back then. Now, it costs 50 cents a mile to drive my RV down the road for one minute (at 60 mph).

I was in Lowe's tonight. They had a Champion genny on the floor. Guess they have made it into that network. Wonder about NAPA?

[Old___Slow]

edit, tech error, double post

[Old___Slow]

jc/oldfordman,

down memory lane again. 'the purple stuff'. i was sent out of alaska to attend high school, to grants pass, ore. a friend of the family took me in, i remember well, dick stewart owned a union 76 service station. so he was also my employer. pumping gas in 1949 was the deal. must check oil for every one. in those days the company reps.(Union Oil C0) painted their oil dip sticks purple. if you found one, it was $10 bucks in the pocket. i remember this. the station was always low on the purple stuff. i think i finished the summer $30 ahead from the bonus. oh, those were the days, my friend, those were the days.

floyd

3000w gennys do use oil, so subject covered:W

[Old___Slow]

prof,

the sling is a result of being old & slow, to pick up a foot and step over a hose. the three hour drive that day was to much. i remember seeing the arm in a 270 degree position after going down, no broken bones show at present. but, painful and feeling stupid. next thing might be i step in IT up to my neck and someone wants to pour some ? on me. what to do? duck? ok nuff said. one gimppy prof and one old blind student. anyway, happy birthday, just don't forget dw on her special day.

slybones,

just follow the pics from prof and you will be on the right track. we all wait for the next threader to show his stuff. i have a shop full of cast off boxes but my goal was/is to reach lower than 55 dbA, not yet there. 60/62 is possible and proven. i have a half finished hardie b/b box but no results yet. just jump in here and join the the small club of belivers. new members are needed. glad to welcome you to the ccc's, some pretty nice folks around these parts.

floyd

[professor95]

Slybones wrote:
Been a while since I was here. However I did remember this thread the Champion Generators. I went and got me one just the other day, while the rebate is going on. I see there is some talk about building a box to insulate the sound. But I didnt see any pics. Are there some pics of a completed example?

I posted mine in early October 2007 - I think it was around the 8th. Search back on the date. Several others were posted by Old & Slow and Brad on a different thread. Don't remember the exact name but it was in Tech Issues and the key word was $500. (Hey, I am entitled to forget, I just had another birthday!)