3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Prof - did you ever hear from Paul Cole in re electric start kits
from Champion?

JC

[toprudder]

WaltinColo wrote:
Just curious...
WHY are you converting these gen's to LPG?
Is it cheaper then gas?
How long will a 20 pound bottle run it?

Less fumes, for one. If mounting in a trailer (as opposed to a motorhome) it can be connected to the propane system already in the trailer. Also, for emergency backup use, propane is much more desireable since it can be stored long periods without going bad. Gas goes bad and can gum up the carb in the process.

[WaltinColo]

Just curious...
WHY are you converting these gen's to LPG?
Is it cheaper then gas?
How long will a 20 pound bottle run it?

[spg571223]

Anyone who comes across a sale on the Champion 3500 generator please PM me or post. I missed the post about Cabela's @299 from a couple of Saturdays ago.

Thank you,
Steve

[blkfe]

professor95 wrote:

blkfe wrote:
Hey Professor,
Very nice job but I expected that from you. The control panel is soooo coool..........
Might need your advice on how you got your face plate to look so good.
Brad

I hope this is close enough to topic to allow.....

Start with a blank aluminum or plastic plate with all the device cut-outs and holes drilled.

Paint the plate white so you have a solid color.

Scan the white plate with a piece of black paper behind so the openings will scan black.

Open the scan in PhotoShop, add lettering and graphics as desired. When finished, use color select for the black colored openings, replace with white fill.

Print on a standard inkjet printer using a self adhesive ink jet vinyl. Or, just print on good quality photo paper and use spray adhesive.

Mount the print on the panel. Cut out the openings with a razor knife. Spray with clear lacquer or a photo fixative to seal and protect.

Instant custom panel for your 3,000 watt Chinese generator projects!

Ahhh.......yes....
Thanks,
Brad

[MrWizard]

Salvo wrote:

MrWizard wrote:
but if you want to run the A/C, the MW the Hair dryer, that yammyHO 2000 will be just a loud or louder than my chinese genny

Do you base that statement on hard facts or what? With the plastic housing, the EF2400 is pretty quiet. Hard to believe it's louder.

Sal

DO you run A/C unit on full, while charging your batteries and then stand outside and listen to your yammy..

yes its got more power than a eu2000i , that helps, the point is at full or even heavy load, the engines are running a high RPM.. and NO longer running 56-58 DB eco throttle rating. they can get pretty dang loud

like I said NOTHING is quieter than a little eu1000i IF all you are doing is charging batteries in eco mode.

but the eu2000i etc.. are 'not so quiet' when under full load, but the owners that post here seem not to notice that.

[professor95]

blkfe wrote:
Hey Professor,
Very nice job but I expected that from you. The control panel is soooo coool..........
Might need your advice on how you got your face plate to look so good.
Brad

I hope this is close enough to topic to allow.....

Start with a blank aluminum or plastic plate with all the device cut-outs and holes drilled.

Paint the plate white so you have a solid color.

Scan the white plate with a piece of black paper behind so the openings will scan black.

Open the scan in PhotoShop, add lettering and graphics as desired. When finished, use color select for the black colored openings, replace with white fill.

Print on a standard inkjet printer using a self adhesive ink jet vinyl. Or, just print on good quality photo paper and use spray adhesive.

Mount the print on the panel. Cut out the openings with a razor knife. Spray with clear lacquer or a photo fixative to seal and protect.

Instant custom panel for your 3,000 watt Chinese generator projects!

[Salvo]

Randy, I'm not questioning your conclusions at all. I agree with you. On the other hand, IMO some statements by others are a bit over the top. This is a great thread having excellent information. Just because other threads may talk down the Chinese genset doesn't mean it should be reciprocated here. And I know that's not what you have in mind.

There's no way around it, the open frame gens are louder that those with enclosures designed for low noise. I had tested my open frame EF2800i against the EF2400i operating a 15A microwave. There's no comparison.

BTW, nice work!

It's now time to take my LPG conversion gen out camping!

Sal

[professor95]

OK. Let's review my findings.

Inside the "cave" I had a Kippor 200Ti inverter with the exhaust outlet running outside. Max sutainable power on the Ti is 1,600 watts.

Next to it is a Champion 40008, same as a 36540 but with electric start. Muffler is outside. Big fan box underneath the genny for cooling.

I have the house battery bank consisting of two 85Ah AGM's connected to a 55 amp PD Converter.

The auxilary batteries consist of three 120 Ah lead acid batteries connected to a 75 amp 3 stage charger.

When the batteries are down - like after an evening of running the inverter and house system - I need to use the generator to recharge them.

If I selected the Champion inside the cave as the recharging source it handled the two chargers and running 12 volt accessories with ease, barely increasing in noise. It ran cool with the fan box and outside muffler.

If I selected the Kipor inverter as the power source for recharging, the engine speed jumped to at least 4,000 RPM. Noise rose significantly. Heat in the compartment also rose, possibly due to inside muffler.

Outside the Kipor was louder under the same conditions as the Champion. It was extremel annoying - sounding like a weed eater or leaf blower at high speed. Inside the vibration and noise was much, much more noticeable than the Champion.

My conclusion was that for my application there was no need to carry the Kipor in the cave. The Champion operated at a lower temperature and sound level.

The Kipor 2000Ti will stay with me. But only as a portable, small capacity inverter genny that I set in the back of the truck or loan out.

This is MY experience. It is real and not embellished. Others may have different experiences. It is not about Champion vs. Kipor - both are excellent gennys and I like both of them. It is not about Honda or Yamaha or another person's rig. Again, it is about MY rig and setup only. Each generator has a place and purpose. In the place I selected and for the purpose I want, the Champ has proven to be the better generator to use.

Enough said?

[blkfe]

Hey Professor,
Very nice job but I expected that from you. The control panel is soooo coool..........
Might need your advice on how you got your face plate to look so good.
Brad

[Salvo]

MrWizard wrote:
but if you want to run the A/C, the MW the Hair dryer, that yammyHO 2000 will be just a loud or louder than my chinese genny

Do you base that statement on hard facts or what? With the plastic housing, the EF2400 is pretty quiet. Hard to believe it's louder.

Sal

[MrWizard]

yes.. i was talking honda 2000, the 2000 inverter or pair of them, seem to be the darlings of the quiet 'you get what you pay for' crowd, or the yammy 2400

I know these units are 'quality built', my champion has been excellent quality and even better customer support and service than Honda.

if all you want is to charge a couple of batteries , nothing is quieter than a honda 1000 inverter model..

but if you want to run the A/C, the MW the Hair dryer, that yammyHO 2000 will be just a loud or louder than my chinese genny

of course inside with the TV on and the hair dryer in your ear, you don't hear it.

[quabillion]

MrWizard wrote:



it comes up all the time members, want a quiet genny, but they want one that runs the A/C.. for some reason the many of the hondaYamm owners think their gennies are still quiet when running the A/C unit.

I am hoping that you are speaking about the honda eu2000's here, at least i think that you are anyway.

I do agree with you and Randy both about the noise when running the air con.

Once I finish sound dampening the enclosure I built for my honda eu3000 I will post my results on sound levels.
Thus far with only the metal box over the gen the A/C is louder than the gen.

I am convinced that my eu3000 will be quieter at running my air due to it running at 35% capacity instead the 55% capacity of the eu2000.
This means lower rpm for the same amount of power (and hopefully) lower sound pressure levels.

[Old___Slow]

Thanks Mods,

Yes, lets keep the thread on topic, agreeded. Lately some have strayed. This is a public forum hosted by, lets say, all who contribute. Most post's offer personal opinions and comments. Woodall's and RV.NET give us all a chance to participate on a equal basis. Thus a forum. 'medium for open discusion' Not put downs or direct hits. Or, that guy, doesn't know a thing about what he is saying. Direct argument.

Floyd

[MrWizard]

The Kipor will not run the 15,000 BTU A/C. It will run the smaller bedroom A/C. Once it kicks out of eco throttle, the noise begines to spike with the increase in RPM. At the near maximum rating of 1,600 watts continious (not an electric heat load) it is flat out screaming RPM wise. Thus, it is louder than the Champion is at the same load of 1,500 watts.

Maybe a 3,000 to 4,500 watt Kipor or Honda with a larger engine would give better results?

that supports, the conclusion of myself and others have, of 'not so quiet' when running the A/C

it comes up all the time members, want a quiet genny, but they want one that runs the A/C.. for some reason the many of the hondaYamm owners think their gennies are still quiet when running the A/C unit.

I know the Kipor is NOT a HondaYamm but its a close clone and very similar in ALL respects.