3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[JConatser]

toprudder wrote:
My guess is that they jet for sea level. The consequence of running a generator, jetted for sea level, at a higher altitude is a rich fuel-air mixture. It won't be optimum, but should not damage the engine. The other way round (as stated in the manufacturer data supplied by MrWizard) is running too lean, which can overheat the engine.

Yeah... most likely it's near sea level, 'though I'm not sure it would be AT sea level... I would imagine the overwhelming majority of generators in use are at least a few feet above sea level, and it seems like they'd want to optimize for the majority.

I'll take a wild guess and say around 500', give or take a few.

[SonicLogic]

toprudder wrote:
My guess is that they jet for sea level. The consequence of running a generator, jetted for sea level, at a higher altitude is a rich fuel-air mixture. It won't be optimum, but should not damage the engine. The other way round (as stated in the manufacturer data supplied by MrWizard) is running too lean, which can overheat the engine.

I agree. Also note that there are a number of locations in the U.S. that are below sea level such as New Orleans and several areas in California.

[toprudder]

My guess is that they jet for sea level. The consequence of running a generator, jetted for sea level, at a higher altitude is a rich fuel-air mixture. It won't be optimum, but should not damage the engine. The other way round (as stated in the manufacturer data supplied by MrWizard) is running too lean, which can overheat the engine.

[JConatser]

professor95 wrote:
..... at what altitude are these engines jetted for?...

Sounds like a good question to ask of your friend (Paul?) at Champion ... he'd either know or could find out, I'd imagine. It would be kinda neat knowing the answer.

[professor95]

So, tell me...... at what altitude are these engines jetted for? Does the factory jet for sea level or something a little higher in elevation?

Since most of the world does not sit at sea level, one would think a compromise jetting would be used.

But, Singapore China is between sea level and 166 meters (540 feet) and Shanghai is only 18 to 20 feet above sea level. Since this is the area where most of the Chinese generators are built, we are back to sea level as a standard....... I guess :h

[Old___Slow]

toprudder makes a valid piont. In flight, thinner air=less drag. The carb can be leaned for a less burn rate. Even jets that only fly 200 miles will climb to 29,000ft, plus or minus, for best burn rate. But with the gen, the higher altitude only results in less power. So, with all the thousands of Champion type gens, someone surely could come up with a way to lean out the carb for the GX200. Hey, this thread has some 'know-how' it's done.:C

[MrWizard]

speaking of altitude and power loss.

the Honey well manual says 3.5% loss per 1000ft "with the carb re-jetted" for the higher altitude.

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
roofgoat -

I agree with Jerry and JC.

Unless you have a shallow well (40 feet or so) with a jet pump or in-well pump of no more than 1/2 HP you can forget using a 36540 3,500 watt generator to run the well. I really don't believe you will be successful running a deep well 240 VAC 3/4 or 1 HP pump (like I have) unless you move up to a 5,500 watt or larger generator.

I'll give you a data point. I have a deep well (over 300 feet) in-well pump. Not sure what the HP rating is, but I do know it draws about 2200 watts running (about 3 HP by my calc). I have driven it quite well with my cheap 5000w generator. Of course, the startup current is what is the killer and I don't know just how much that is.

[roofgoat]

MrWizard wrote:

my guess is there was a "memory malfunction" and the actual recommendation was a pigtail at the switch and a cord long enough to go from the generator to the switch and pigtail

First, thanks to all who posted. MrWizard, you are probably (hopefully) correct, error on my part understading what the guys said.

[MrWizard]

A double ended male cord is often called a "Suicide Cord" and for good reason, it can kill you if NOT careful

my guess is there was a "memory malfunction" and the actual recommendation was a pigtail at the switch and a cord long enough to go from the generator to the switch and pigtail

with a Suicide cord, you would have to

throw the switch

plug in the cord AT THE HOUSE SIDE FIRST

then start the generator

then plug in the cord

doing this in reverse order could get you killed when you grabbed the cord

[jerdebson]

Roofgoat, incase you thought I was talking as an electrician, I am not, but I am a Journeyman Lineman since 1976. Which is just one of the hats I wear, or have worn, at the power company. For the last 12 years I have been the Staking Engineer for my Co-op. I work with people setting up power at their old or new sites. I may not know all I need to know about my "new" 5ver but this is my field. Try to fill your needs without a double ended feeder if possible.

Just as a side note I have seen people hardwire a pigtail into their double throw box, eliminating one of the male ends, on the consumer side leaving only one male to plug into their generator. I am not recommending this but it is much safer than double male connectors. I could blow smoke on and on but my suggestion is to get with a local electrician and do it right.

Now follows the usuall disclaimer, not recommending any of the above, YMMV. Research and be carefull.

Jerry

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
roofgoat - simpler & safer to just run a large gauge extension cord/s with
a junction box at the end.

As Jerry indicates - the "double male-ended" extension cord is an accident waiting to happen. I'm NOT an electrician - but have seen first-hand the results of this. Not good.

~
JC

[professor95]

JConatser wrote:

professor95 wrote:
... Why would a fuel injected, PCM controlled gas truck engine loose power at 4,000 feet compared to sea level?

Does your truck engine have a BAP (Barometric Absolute Pressure) sensor?...if so, perhaps it's not working as it should. If no BAP, perhaps the MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor is having some issues...

I did not mean to imply I have a problem with MY truck. It runs great at 4,000 feet and provides all the power I need.

Thanks for the feedback though :C

[professor95]

roofgoat -

I agree with Jerry and JC.

Unless you have a shallow well (40 feet or so) with a jet pump or in-well pump of no more than 1/2 HP you can forget using a 36540 3,500 watt generator to run the well. I really don't believe you will be successful running a deep well 240 VAC 3/4 or 1 HP pump (like I have) unless you move up to a 5,500 watt or larger generator.

[pritch272]

The cord with 2 male ends does not sound right....

[ol_Bombero-JC]

roofgoat - simpler & safer to just run a large gauge extension cord/s with
a junction box at the end.

As Jerry indicates - the "double male-ended" extension cord is an accident waiting to happen. I'm NOT an electrician - but have seen first-hand the results of this. Not good.

~
JC