3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[rustycopperball]

has anyone tried or have used the ETQ 3500wt generator /inveter that's on the Sam's club web site?? good price, as loud as the champ?

[W8NONU]

Britincali wrote:
Any kind of humidity renders it useless so it wouldnt do anything in VA.

Supco6 hit me up with how much you want for the cap.

The person you want has the username WRACE. Supco6 is the type of capacitor he has. :B Look back a few pages and you'll see his discussion.

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:
Floyd,

The 80cc Champ is a good unit for the price. As I have reported many times in the past it is NOT a little brother clone of the 3,500. Different design on engine - more like the Mitsubishi.

snip:

There is an old saying "There is no replacement for displacement" when it comes to engines, but we now know design and efficiency have more to do with performance than how big the piston is. Quit comparing inverters by cc of the engine. HP is no longer used either. New industry rating for small engines is either torque or Kilowatts.

Snip:

I'm confused again. Like a goose lost in the fog. On the Generators and Inverters, we see no 'torque' only CC's and HP listed. Are we to believe the MFG Kilowatts listed on the various brands?

[Britincali]

Any kind of humidity renders it useless so it wouldnt do anything in VA.

Supco6 hit me up with how much you want for the cap.

[professor95]

Britincali wrote:

A ton cheaper to run than house AC and works great in the desert 😉

Unfortunately it would only make matters worse in Virginia. With temps between 90 and 100 and relative humidity about the same it would not work. Now, if we could just get rid of the high humidity it would work. For the moment, sitting on a block of ice seems to work the best if no A/C is available.

WRACE has a Supco6 hard start capacitor that did not improve his A/C starting. Maybe you could work a deal with him for the Supco6 to use on your 3/4 h.p. swamp cooler? Locked Rotor current on a 3/4 h.p. motor will be high - something like 54+ amps. Not enough surge in Champ 3,500 or any other make/model of same power class to do anything with that current for more than two-three cycles. The motor without a capacitor most likely takes a minimum of 30 cycles to drop locked rotor current to a level where the 3,500 could maintain it.

[Old___Slow]

Glad to clear the air from the question of the Champion 80cc engine and the New 2000i Champion Inverter 79cc engine. Neither being a Honda clone. One addition question. If we are not to use the 'cc' to identify and compare output, nor 'hp' ratings, are we left in the dark??
And the advertised output ratings given by all the different brands?

[professor95]

Floyd,

The 80cc Champ is a good unit for the price. As I have reported many times in the past it is NOT a little brother clone of the 3,500. Different design on engine - more like the Mitsubishi.

Sound level is around 65 dBA. The 3,500 with the 196 cc engine is rated at 67 dBA.

They are like the "Little Engine that Could". Darn hard to kill one. I have the 1200 as the APU in my Volvo hauler.

There is an old saying "There is no replacement for displacement" when it comes to engines, but we now know design and efficiency have more to do with performance than how big the piston is. Quit comparing inverters by cc of the engine. HP is no longer used either. New industry rating for small engines is either torque or Kilowatts.

Exception: My 12.1 L Diesel. For that beast "There is no replacement for displacement" holds true. The 1,800 ft. lbs. of torque it puts out is awesome.

[lt_eggbeater]

We also have the 3500 but also want use the 1200/1500 to cut down on fuel seeing as we really only need about 600 watts overnight to supplement the battery bank.

[greenrvgreen]

"Eggbeater""--

I have long term experience with the Champion 1200/1500, and I think it is a great choice. I have over 1000 hours on mine and it chugs along fine.

I have the 3500 also but I am starting to go back to the 1200 for most of my needs, as the 3500 is really sized for the air conditioner only, and drinks fuel like it's Prom night.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Capt.Storm wrote:
What the heck is a roof swamp cooler?

Enjoyed the question (and xln't response!).

Interesting how very common terminology just doesn't apply in some parts of the country.

Besides the desert (hot, dry climates), roof mounted (whole house) "Swamp Coolers" were very common in parts of Los Angeles when the San Fernando Valley was first developed.

Plenty are still there - although most have been replaced by refer units.

However, many businesses still use swamp coolers for areas that are not practical for refer units (workshop areas, etc.).

~

JC

[Old___Slow]

lt_eggbeater wrote:
Does Anyone have any long term experience with the champion 1200/1500 watt 80cc four stroke models?

This little fellow has created some interesting posts.

MrWizard has a great review and statement of finding good use of the Champion 1500/1200 with the 80cc engine. 1000 hours plus and was still going strong. If this same engine minus the flywheel is used in the new 2000w Inverter, we seem to already have a good idea the new Champion 2000i Inverter will be dependable mechanically.

[Trimsters]

So what size capacitor would you need for the 3/4hp 120v. Evap cooler motor? What would work?

[rowekmr]

Yeah I have used my generator for probably only a few hours in the 2 3/4 years I had it for my TT. When our power went out I had a splitter running 2 lines to my house which I ran one frig, one deep freezer (which I alternated to the sump pump) and the other to a 6 way splitter with TV, cable, DVD player/surround sound and a flourescent bulb lamp. My neighbor had a frig and who knows what else plugged in. THat thing churned for at least 35 hours no breaks so we filled it with gas on the go. The last day for the heck of it I unplugged my frig and put a window a/c unit in the window since the central ac was down and cooled off the living room and dining room while we watched TV and my neighbors were in total darkness. I didn't lose any food nor much convenience. It is worth its weight in gold!

Joe

Britincali wrote:
During a recent power outage at my house I finally found the limits of the little champion.

I ran an extension cord from the 110v outlet to my roof swamp cooler with a 3/4 horse motor and it flat killed my little baby, no breakers popped but it killed the RPMs and put a load like Ive never seen on my little yellow trooper. I tried to get it to start a few times but no go.

We ended up running the extension to some splitters and running multiple fans in the house instead, all in all it ended up runnin 3 fans, 36" CRT TV, surround sound, dish box, 5 60w lamps, refer, freezer and my computer.

Im really suprised it wouldnt start my swamp, the motor doesnt have a capacitor so maybe that was the issue. After a couple of beers I almost got on the roof and spun the squirrel cage while the Mrs plugged it in but I figured loosing fingers wasnt worth the cooling.

It has always run everything Ive thrown at it without a hickup, but I guess a non capacitor 3/4 horse motor is enough to make it scream mercy.

[Britincali]

This is the one I have....

http://www.azpartsmaster.com/Products/34-Horse-Power--2-Speed-Evaporative-Cooler-Motor__MTG9011.aspx


I think the lack of a cap is the main problem

[snarfattack]

Definitely would not recommend helping it to get it started... my brother lost a fingertip that way. Depending on the particular design, the electric motor on that could require 4 - 10 times more power to get it started than to keep it running.