3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[SonicLogic]

ATS_Aaron wrote:

ATS_Aaron wrote:
I just went back out to check it and the genny had tripped. It's 102 according to weather website. My truck thermometer showed 106 when I pulled up after lunch. I turned off the air circulator inside and reset the genny, we'll see if she can keep going.

So far so good. Afternoon A/C is just that A/C ONLY, nothing else.

Aaron

Aaron,
Do you know the amount of amps or watts the A/C unit draws?

[ATS_Aaron]

ATS_Aaron wrote:
I just went back out to check it and the genny had tripped. It's 102 according to weather website. My truck thermometer showed 106 when I pulled up after lunch. I turned off the air circulator inside and reset the genny, we'll see if she can keep going.

So far so good. Afternoon A/C is just that A/C ONLY, nothing else.

Aaron

[jasult]

Professor:
I carry an infrared thermometer at all times so when I do try gen on rear of trailer I will for sure check temps at speeds and post back.
I don't plan on doing this very often, but last week in 100 degree temps when we arrived at RV PARK it was toasty for sure while setting up our site :E

[ATS_Aaron]

I just went back out to check it and the genny had tripped. It's 102 according to weather website. My truck thermometer showed 106 when I pulled up after lunch. I turned off the air circulator inside and reset the genny, we'll see if she can keep going.

[SonicLogic]

ATS_Aaron wrote:

Good news, turns out I had missed something in my power management. I thought the refrigerator was turned off, but instead it was set to automatic. As soon as it saw 110 volts it tried to come on and loaded up the genny too much. With the fridge OFF the small Coleman had been able to run my A/C and my bedroom fan. It's 90 degrees outside right now. We'll see how she does this afternoon when it's 104! I can switch to a smaller fan for the bedroom to save a little load too.

Aaron

That’s good news! I have the exact same generator and have found it to be perfect for my needs. It can handle up to a 20 amp continuous load (2,400 watts) but I prefer to load it up with no more than 15 amps continuous (1,800 watts). At that load it can run all day on a tank of gas and you don’t have to worry about overheating the windings in the generator core. I use mine for hurricane backup power and I run two 8,000 BTU window A/C units (660 watts each), a refrigerator/freezer (180 watts), a big screen TV (200 watts) and a few LED lights (50 to 100 watts). Each of the A/C units draw a surge of 1,980 watts when the compressor locks on and the generator can handle it without any problem. The surge on the refrigerator/freezer is 1,050 watts and is not a problem.

I started out using a Power Max 3500 generator but found it was a little too big although I still retain the Power Max as a backup.

[jlaustin]

professor95 wrote:

Dr. Austin is an aerodynamic type of guy with his experience in his larger flying toys. He is in a prime position to provide info to the thread with his knowledge and rear mounted genny. Hopefully, John will give some test results. ........ John?..........

One observation I've made is that I'm getting less "aerodynamic" as I age! (i.e., greater cross-sectional area! :B) It's my biggest problem! (pun intended!) Oh ... lessee ... you were talking about generators!!!

I recently took the FW to Oshkosh to the Experimental Aircraft Association's AirVenture event (1500 miles round-trip). My genset is receiver-hitch mounted over a relatively open frame (no solid "floor") and I had a heavy nylon cover that covered the top and sides and left the bottom of the genset open. It would have been interesting to observe the cover from behind the FW during highway speeds, but as far as I could tell, it didn't appear to shift or move, so perhaps my FW indeed creates either a negative pressure or at least "dead" area in that region.

My genset is different from most of the others in that it is enclosed on all four sides and the top and is modified with a 500 cfm power vent to pull stagnant air out of the top and a 125 cfm ducted fan pushing airflow to the alternator. It is so efficient at cooling that I suspect it would do fine even with the FW in motion. I also suspect an open-frame generator without ducted/forced cooling might have much more variable cooling results depending on where and how it's mounted and at what speed the vehicle is moving, as the Professor suggests.

It'll probably be a few weeks before I could do any in-motion tests, but if I get a chance, I'll certainly get back with the results!

BTW, it was rather hot and humid early last week at Oshkosh and the genset did fine - I had one issue with the 500 cfm vent fan working intermittently due to a poorly crimped wiring connector, but once that was resolved, it "kept its cool" and ran my 15K BTU A/C without a whimper of complaint. Interestingly, it "grunts" a little harder momentarily when the microwave is used (A/C has to be "off"), but it comes right back to speed and works fine. I had two golf cart batteries on the FW and used a 400w/800w surge inverter to run a 32" LCD, DVD, and surround-sound system. A typical 2 hour or so movie would pull the batteries down only about 0.2 volts!

Regards,
John

[ATS_Aaron]

Hahaha. No, but I am traveling with a friend's family too. This trip is two guys, two wives and two kiddos.

Aaron

[Jerome_B_]

ATS_Aaron wrote:

ATS_Aaron wrote:
I borrowed a Powermate Proforce 2500 (3125 peak) generator from my dad to try out in our 30ft trailer. It looks like this:



It will run our A/C and a Walmart air circulator fan for a few minutes. I played with the governor springs so that under load with the A/C and fan going it's at 120 volts. But after a few minutes the voltage seems to fall off to ~110 and the breaker trips. I am guessing the generator is just too small. It might run the A/C with NOTHING else on, but I don't think I can trust the wives to fully comprehend that.

The good news is that it didn't seem too loud. It's rated at 67 dB at 23 feet. We made a quick cardboard box to redirect the sound and that probably cut a few dB's off but mostly just changed the tone. The muffler on the Powermate is REALLY good. We temporarily added an additional muffler (the oem one from my wife's Suzuki Z250 ATV) but it's didn't make much difference.

A 2500 watt generator being too small is a disappointment. I had a pipe dream of getting to run with just one Honda Eu2000i, but right now it looks like a pair of those and a parallel kit is in my future.

Aaron

Good news, turns out I had missed something in my power management. I thought the refrigerator was turned off, but instead it was set to automatic. As soon as it saw 110 volts it tried to come on and loaded up the genny too much. With the fridge OFF the small Coleman had been able to run my A/C and my bedroom fan. It's 90 degrees outside right now. We'll see how she does this afternoon when it's 104! I can switch to a smaller fan for the bedroom to save a little load too.

Aaron

It will run our A/C and a Walmart air circulator fan for a few minutes. I played with the governor springs so that under load with the A/C and fan going it's at 120 volts. But after a few minutes the voltage seems to fall off to ~110 and the breaker trips. I am guessing the generator is just too small. It might run the A/C with NOTHING else on, but I don't think I can trust the wives to fully comprehend that.

Aaron, You're living with more than one wife? You lucky dog or you poor soul. Your choice.

[ljeast]

jasult wrote:

Question ?? I will be mounting this on rear bumper I fabbed up and can 5ver just be plugged in and run when we get near RV Park when it is hot as to cool down RV with out any switch. My electric cable comes out right there at back next to bumper.

On our last trip, my electrician friend did that with his RV and came pulling in all nice and cool 🙂 His cable plugged in at the back also. I have not done this yet but I will when my warranty is up and I have done some mods to the rear bumper.

[ATS_Aaron]

ATS_Aaron wrote:
I borrowed a Powermate Proforce 2500 (3125 peak) generator from my dad to try out in our 30ft trailer. It looks like this:



It will run our A/C and a Walmart air circulator fan for a few minutes. I played with the governor springs so that under load with the A/C and fan going it's at 120 volts. But after a few minutes the voltage seems to fall off to ~110 and the breaker trips. I am guessing the generator is just too small. It might run the A/C with NOTHING else on, but I don't think I can trust the wives to fully comprehend that.

The good news is that it didn't seem too loud. It's rated at 67 dB at 23 feet. We made a quick cardboard box to redirect the sound and that probably cut a few dB's off but mostly just changed the tone. The muffler on the Powermate is REALLY good. We temporarily added an additional muffler (the oem one from my wife's Suzuki Z250 ATV) but it's didn't make much difference.

A 2500 watt generator being too small is a disappointment. I had a pipe dream of getting to run with just one Honda Eu2000i, but right now it looks like a pair of those and a parallel kit is in my future.

Aaron

Good news, turns out I had missed something in my power management. I thought the refrigerator was turned off, but instead it was set to automatic. As soon as it saw 110 volts it tried to come on and loaded up the genny too much. With the fridge OFF the small Coleman had been able to run my A/C and my bedroom fan. It's 90 degrees outside right now. We'll see how she does this afternoon when it's 104! I can switch to a smaller fan for the bedroom to save a little load too.

Aaron

[professor95]

There are some "issues" pertaining to running a genny on the rear bumper with the vehicle in motion. A lot will depend on your vehicle speed and the aerodynamic design of your vehicle.

As we know, an extreme low pressure air pocket "can" exist at the rear of a trailer. This pocket can upset air flow to cool a generator.

On my old and now long gone 2005 Prowler I once had to run the rear mounted genny to sustain lighting on my Toad when the alternator went out and the batteries died. When I arrived at my camping destination, the genny was noticeably much hotter than running stationary.

About the only advice I can give is to try it for short runs and measure the results with either your nose or a thermometer (preferably the latter). We lack documented testing in these conditions and it looks like data is needed.

I do know the speed of the vehicle and air flow patterns will be the major variable in cooling or not. It may do fine at 45 mph but overheat at 65 mph. The height and distance of the mount for the genny from the trailer will also cause variations.

Dr. Austin is an aerodynamic type of guy with his experience in his larger flying toys. He is in a prime position to provide info to the thread with his knowledge and rear mounted genny. Hopefully, John will give some test results. ........ John?..........

[jlaustin]

jasult wrote:
After months of reading and listening to all I opted on the PLAIN JANE Champion 3500 at Tractor Supply and on sale for 279.00. Dear wife and I were on vacation in PA and visited Sands Casino. Wife won a small amount and said happy birthday, now get the Champion before they stop making it (lol) We went to Tractor Supply and paid 34.99 for 3 year service plan for repairs or replacement. I will be using it for my construction business as well so it will be great investment either way.

Question ?? I will be mounting this on rear bumper I fabbed up and can 5ver just be plugged in and run when we get near RV Park when it is hot as to cool down RV with out any switch. My electric cable comes out right there at back next to bumper.

I've never tried running the genset while the FW was in-motion ... perhaps someone can address that. However, obviously you can plug your shoreline cord into the genset if it has the RV receptacle. In my case, my shoreline receptacle was quite some distance from the rear bumper, so I opted to run a dedicated 30a line from the bumper-mounted genset under the FW's frame and bring it up to an automatic transfer switch. With that setup, you can plug-in to shore power or run the genset and never have to switch anything - it's all automatic. The transfer switch also has a delay that lets the genset stabilize for about 20 seconds before transferring the power - handy if you forgot and left the A/C "on" so that the genset doesn't have to try to start with a load online.
Regards,
John

[jasult]

After months of reading and listening to all I opted on the PLAIN JANE Champion 3500 at Tractor Supply and on sale for 279.00. Dear wife and I were on vacation in PA and visited Sands Casino. Wife won a small amount and said happy birthday, now get the Champion before they stop making it (lol) We went to Tractor Supply and paid 34.99 for 3 year service plan for repairs or replacement. I will be using it for my construction business as well so it will be great investment either way.

Question ?? I will be mounting this on rear bumper I fabbed up and can 5ver just be plugged in and run when we get near RV Park when it is hot as to cool down RV with out any switch. My electric cable comes out right there at back next to bumper.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

SonicLogic wrote:

professor95 wrote:
The replacement alternator for the Ferrari is $1,800. That's considered "reasonable" for a car that sold for $200,000 new. But, if I owned a Ford Focus and was quoted $1,800 for an alternator - labor not included, should I consider that reasonable?

Just an old man playing mind games - pay no attention.

That's because Fiat owns Ferrari now. The part prices for Ferrari and Maserati used to be affordable.

When was "used to be", LOL! :@

Depends on how old you are - and, of course how many greens were in your wallet in the time of "used to be".

Example:
Many years ago (watch for the trade-off) a friend bought a '58 Berlinetta Coupe. It was on an English (MGs and such) used car lot. From the get-go it was in need of a head gasket and a new ring & pinion. YIKES! IIRC - each went for about $200.

Rather than buy the parts and attempt the work himself and/or pay the labor . . . the friend sold the Berlinetta (bet he wishes he had it now!) and bought a new (think it was a '61) Chevy Biscayne with a 409 & a 4 speed.

~
On edit: Been a long time - but I actually knew two guys that considered purchase of the Berlinetta. One backed out, the other is the guy in the story above. Neither was a "high roller", LOL!
IIRC think the British Car lot (Santa Monica, CA) had taken it in on trade or an outright purchase. It was "priced to sell" - at (again, "IIRC") about $3K . . . . "way back when".

JC

[ATS_Aaron]

SonicLogic wrote:
That's because Fiat owns Ferrari now. The part prices for Ferrari and Maserati used to be affordable.

When was that? Fiat has been building Ferrari since the 70's. I bought a Fiat Spyder 2000 alternator for my '78 308. Same alternator, but $120 from O'rielly's instead of $1200 from Ferrari.

Back on topic - anyone have an opinion on the APA (American Power?) generators sold by O'Rielly's and Kragers? They have a 3500 watt for $350

Aaron