3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Spectre21]

$20 shipping? Ouch!

[Old___Slow]

With the New Kipor and it having a proven track record is there a jumping the Champion boat into the 'Kipor Ship':@

[professor95]

RTompkins3 wrote:

Professor -
Another thought - raise the Kipor up about 4 inches so that the tent shields all of the generator around the edges and then see what the difference is. Making the noise have to "turn the corner" at the base might make a difference and with the small size of the Kipor it shouldn't affect the cooling all that much.

Good idea. I'll try it the next time I set it up and let you know the result.

Thanks!

[professor95]

Spectre21 wrote:

professor95 wrote:
Oscar checks out poles to see if they are eatable.

Silly human. Everything is eatable, just not everything is passable!

😉

From a dog's point of view, you've got that right! I'm surprised he (Oscar) did not try to carry one of the poles off and bury it like a bone. I am serious, not making a joke!

[professor95]

msmd1 wrote:
I like the gen tent. Might have to order one. On a different topic, but still concerning the 3000W Chinese generator thread, I got my new CPE 46538 out this morning because the electricity had been out since midnight. Things were getting a bit warm in the refrigerator. Checked the oil, filled it with fresh, stabilized gas and hit the remote. Nothing. Battery read 1.83 volts on my meter. Pull started the genset, ran it a few minutes to warm up, and then ran an extension cord to the refrigerator and plugged it in. It ran for about 30 minutes before shutting down all by itself. It never sounded like it was running "right". It sounded like it was not running at full rpm, even though the intelligauge showed 124 volts and 59.9 hertz. When it shut down, the voltage was 119 and hertz went to 56. The light in the refrigerator was pulsing from bright to dim very rapidly while hooked up to the generator. Does it need battery power for the automatic choke to operate? Does running the generator charge the starting battery? I have the battery out of it now, charging. Probably going to put a battery tender on it for storage. When I ran it in August after receiving it, it ran like a charm under load, but not today.
Thanks for the help.

The Battery Tender is an excellent idea. It is a given, the small battery in the electric start models will discharge if allowed to sit. There is some parasitic loss back through the rectifier and charge coil. If you cannot keep a float charger on the battery when the generator is not in use, it is best to either remove the negative lead from the battery or put a small switch in the wire from the charge coil so that it can be opened to prevent any current leakage.

Running the generator will charge the battery, but not with the efficiency or voltage regulation you will receive from the Battery Tender or a float charger.

The automatic choke is a solenoid. As such, it does need battery power to operate properly.

You said, "When it shut down, the voltage was 119 and hertz went to 56. The light in the refrigerator was pulsing from bright to dim very rapidly while hooked up to the generator."

I think you are telling us that the voltage and frequency dropped and the refrigerator light flashed as you were shutting the generator down? Or did all of this happen before you shut it down? How rapidly was the fridge light pulsing - once a second, 10 times a second, or what? During that time was the generator also surging (changing speed) or was it running smoothly? :?

A little more specificity will help me to understand. :h

[professor95]

Spectre21 wrote:

I'm new to the forum having found it while searching for information on the Champion 4000W Generator from Tractor Supply. My son and I play scenario paintball which usually means boondocking in a cow pasture so the champion works great for us. I picked one up last week before playing this weekend and was surprised how quiet it was compared to the several other open frame gensets around me. For $75 I'm gonna try one of these gen tents myself. Every db makes a difference!

Welcome. I hope you stick around and can become a "regular".

[Spectre21]

professor95 wrote:
Oscar checks out poles to see if they are eatable.

Silly human. Everything is eatable, just not everything is passable!

😉

[RTompkins3]

professor95 wrote:
Let's see now..... Kipor in ECO mode with no GenTent = 53dbA, With a GenTent it is below 50 dba.

Kipor in high speed mode with no GenTent is 60 dbA, with the GenTent we drop to 56 dbA. A 4 db reduction is significant. But, why wasn't the sound drop equal to the bigger generator in my previous tests?

Well, much of the noise you hear from an open frame synchronous generator like the CPE 46538 is mechanical banging, bumping and vibrating. The cases on the inverters are designed to considerably muffle that particular frequency range. So, even though it may sound sort of fuzzy, there really is not as broad of a sound frequency range to block with an inverter. As with any "reduction" device, there is a point of diminishing returns.

I actually use the Kipor more on my boondocking trips to the mountains than the big Champion 40008 permanently located in the front of my 5th wheel. I rarely need the 15,000 BTU A/C in the mountains so the Kipor provides more than enough power. But, in the NPS Campgrounds on the Skyline Drive lowering even the sound level of a mid-size inverter that mimics an angry swarm of bees when under load will be a plus. I was very pleased with the results.

Professor -
Another thought - raise the Kipor up about 4 inches so that the tent shields all of the generator around the edges and then see what the difference is. Making the noise have to "turn the corner" at the base might make a difference and with the small size of the Kipor it shouldn't affect the cooling all that much.

[Spectre21]

professor95 wrote:

Spectre21 wrote:
I wonder what effect it would have to make the enclosure out of a light reflective material rather than black canvas?

Are you are thinking about heat retention?

My knee jerk is it might keep the sides cooler. But, then I ask to what benefit? Cool air has to move in and hot air out no matter what color the sides are. With this type of enclosure that is accomplished by convection, not conduction. Heavy cool air is picked up by the engine fan from near the ground, circulated and expelled out the open end and top flap. I don't think reflective material would have much of an impact on the sides.

Now, on the other hand, where a true heat insulating material is needed, reflective material will help considerably. Even heat made up of non-visible light (i.e. Generator muffler rather than the sun.) reflective material will bounce heat away from it's surface.

It would be an easy experiment to run. Just drape some pieces of heavy duty aluminum foil over the supports before putting on the tent. Wrapping the AZDEL pieces in foil might give some reflective benefits.

But, since the GenTent is out in the open I kinda doubt that we would see a significant performance difference.

Good thought, though. Personally, I like reflective materials.

I guess I was thinking more about heat absorption. No reason to make it hotter than it will already be on it's own.

I'm new to the forum having found it while searching for information on the Champion 4000W Generator from Tractor Supply. My son and I play scenario paintball which usually means boondocking in a cow pasture so the champion works great for us. I picked one up last week before playing this weekend and was surprised how quiet it was compared to the several other open frame gensets around me. For $75 I'm gonna try one of these gen tents myself. Every db makes a difference!

[msmd1]

I like the gen tent. Might have to order one. On a different topic, but still concerning the 3000W Chinese generator thread, I got my new CPE 46538 out this morning because the electricity had been out since midnight. Things were getting a bit warm in the refrigerator. Checked the oil, filled it with fresh, stabilized gas and hit the remote. Nothing. Battery read 1.83 volts on my meter. Pull started the genset, ran it a few minutes to warm up, and then ran an extension cord to the refrigerator and plugged it in. It ran for about 30 minutes before shutting down all by itself. It never sounded like it was running "right". It sounded like it was not running at full rpm, even though the intelligauge showed 124 volts and 59.9 hertz. When it shut down, the voltage was 119 and hertz went to 56. The light in the refrigerator was pulsing from bright to dim very rapidly while hooked up to the generator. Does it need battery power for the automatic choke to operate? Does running the generator charge the starting battery? I have the battery out of it now, charging. Probably going to put a battery tender on it for storage. When I ran it in August after receiving it, it ran like a charm under load, but not today.
Thanks for the help.

[professor95]

Spectre21 wrote:
I wonder what effect it would have to make the enclosure out of a light reflective material rather than black canvas?

Are you are thinking about heat retention?

My knee jerk is it might keep the sides cooler. But, then I ask to what benefit? Cool air has to move in and hot air out no matter what color the sides are. With this type of enclosure that is accomplished by convection, not conduction. Heavy cool air is picked up by the engine fan from near the ground, circulated and expelled out the open end and top flap. I don't think reflective material would have much of an impact on the sides.

Now, on the other hand, where a true heat insulating material is needed, reflective material will help considerably. Even heat made up of non-visible light (i.e. Generator muffler rather than the sun.) reflective material will bounce heat away from it's surface.

It would be an easy experiment to run. Just drape some pieces of heavy duty aluminum foil over the supports before putting on the tent. Wrapping the AZDEL pieces in foil might give some reflective benefits.

But, since the GenTent is out in the open I kinda doubt that we would see a significant performance difference.

Good thought, though. Personally, I like reflective materials.

[Spectre21]

I wonder what effect it would have to make the enclosure out of a light reflective material rather than black canvas?

[Old___Slow]

Prof,

Congrat's on the new Kipor, Yellow and Black, my favorite colors. Is this perhaps the new line from Champion. Seams Kipor has gained a real fine name. In scanning many brands of Chinese Inverter reviews, 'Kipor is King' of them all. I always thought when you bought the one used in your fifth wheeler with the Champion, there must be a reason. Not to mention other new Chinese Inverters by name, but, one surly doubts these folks, can KO their neighbors who made a great name for them selves. Didn't Kipor start with the color 'Red'?

Anyway, the Yellow and Black Kipor shows well with the new Gentent. Is it rain proof?

My Yellow and Black gen still rules the roost in the Yellow and Black genhouse. Just a little early morning crow. Time to raise the big Champion flag.

[professor95]

jlaustin wrote:
Are the Azdel panels in the GenTent just in the front and back or are panels included for one or both ends, too?

Regards,
John

The kit I received had panels on both sides, the end and 1/2 of a piece for one of the two flaps on the muffler end. There is no AZDEL in the top. IMHO, If using the GenTent with a full size 3,000 watt generator both of the end flaps on the muffler end and over the gas tank need to be up for cooling. Thus, I removed the piece from the second flap so I could roll both of them up and slip the Velcro tie sewn into the canvas (or nylon?) around the rolled up section.

With the Kipor I could have dropped one of the end flaps, but choose not to. My feedback to SuperGen was to omit the 1/2 piece on the end flap. My fear was with it there some customers would close the flap when using a full size genny no matter what the instructions said (who reads instructions?)


One of the AZDEL panels removed. Oscar checks out poles to see if they are eatable.


One end flap down. This flap has an AZDEL panel inside. The side I have rolled up does not have a panel.


Both end flaps up. I have removed the AZDEL panel so both of the flaps can be rolled up.

[jlaustin]

Are the Azdel panels in the GenTent just in the front and back or are panels included for one or both ends, too?

Regards,
John