3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:


No big deal - but made me double check!

Pull start doesn't work too well with a dead battery, and manual choke was a bit of . . how/where?
Makes for a "fast study" on disconnecting when not in use!

Champion may be getting some (lots?) of owner calls.

JC

Double check? Well, now I know you are not only reading but doing the intended product research. Good Job!

Champion does have a solution for the dead battery. Or at least the battery draining down sooner than later if it is left sitting. Newly manufactured models will have a battery charge coil disconnect as part of the power switch. Now, we just need to remember to turn the switch off after shutting it down with the RC for the last use.

No news on getting a retro switch (not yet available). Personally, I think putting an alligator clip on the negative battery wire is easier and better. Any current owner can do that for less than a dollar, and the wires are fully accessible. Also makes the unit safer for dummies like me that forget to disconnect the battery when servicing the unit. Letting a small AH battery sit for several weeks with out a float charger connected is asking for trouble anyway. The self discharge rate will drain it during that time.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

professor95 wrote:
Champion has just released a Technical Service Bulletin that may be the answer to the problem msmd1 experienced.

In any event, it might be a good idea to print this out if you own a 46536 and stick it in your user manual. I am sure it will eventually make it to CPE's Web Site as well.

CPE TECH BULLETIN Model 46538 Tech Bulletin 9.08.2010
Wireless 3500w Champion Generator
Re: Proper procedure to start with dead battery-
When starting a Champion Model46538 3500 watt generator, it is important to follow the steps listed below.

1. If your battery is too low to start the generator by electric start with the wireless control, then unless you unplug the Ignition coil master lead wire, you will experience a shut down of the engine within the first 30 minutes of assumed normal operation. This engine shut down is a result of the wireless receiver receiving less than a 7 volt DC signal. Eventually, this signal is sent to the receiver and in turn, tells the generator to automatically shut itself off. Leaving you with a confusing thought!!
   
   
2. To locate the master lead Ignition wire, you will need to look over the top of the recoil and behind the front panel assembly. There is one single black wire that can be identified with a soft black covering about I" in length where the plug- in connector is located. Pulling in opposite directions at the plug- in connector, will separate this connection and allow a full by pass of the wireless receiver with the ignition system.
   
   
3. You now will be able to start the generator by using the choke manually at the push plate located at the top of the carburetor. A label above the choke will show how to push it manually for both choke and run positions. Please do not over choke before opening for air admission. 1 choke pull for every 4 run pulls is recommended.
   
   
4. After a manual starting, you will note your Intelligauge will light immediately upon the generator engine starting. It is also important to plug in your loads after the generator is started and unplug the loads prior to shutting the generator engine off. The Load control function that normally works with a charged battery will not function with a low or dead battery. It becomes disabled when the master Ignition wire is unplugged.
   
   
5. In order to stop the engine, the best method is to simply choke off the engine at the choke lever, or plug the ignition master lead together and then turn the panel rocker switch to the OFF position.
   
   
6. This procedure will allow you to use the generator safely until the battery is replaced or recharged.
   
   
7. Be sure to review the bulletin on low or dead battery usage and recharging.
8. Call our 24/7 hotline no. listed on the generator if you need more help with this operation.
   Champion Power Equipment Santa Fe Springs, CA

Prof - not picking on you (again - Cummings vs Cummins) - but I think you typo'd the Champ number in your intro "suggestion" - 46536 vs 46538.
No big deal - but made me double check!

IMO the parasitic discharge may be more rapid than one expects - resulting in a dead duck (AFLAC?) - - , errr - battery.
(How would I know that?)

Pull start doesn't work too well with a dead battery, and manual choke was a bit of . . how/where?
Makes for a "fast study" on disconnecting when not in use!

Champion may be getting some (lots?) of owner calls.

~

JC

[SonicLogic]

professor95 wrote:

spg571223 wrote:
I have a Champion 3500/4000 watt RV generator and my RV has a Tripplite 2000 watt Inverter/Charger. When I run the Champion generator to power the RV the Inverter charger does not sense the power coming from the generator and stays in inverter mode instead of switching to generator power and does not charge the house batteries. Voltage output reads 122 volts with a meter and the inverter/charger works if I am plugged in to shore power or if I plug in to a Yanmar Diesel 3700 watt generator I have. Any sugestions on how to check to see what the problem is. The Champion generator seems to run fine, it powers the 1500 watt water heater and the A/C unit in the RV with no problem.

tvman44 gave you a correct answer. I have the same problem when using my APC 1000 UPS with the generator. Apparently there is just enough "hash" or distortion on the signal that the inverter switching circuits interpret it as a power line failure.

There are two solutions:

One is to use a less expensive converter or battery charger ONLY when running the generator and turn off or unplug the TrippLite. I have a WFCO 45 amp converter with a regular AC plug on the input and alligator clips on the output that works well with the generator. It is also useful for charging other low or dead batteries around the ranch.

The second solution is to try an inverter like the Honda 3000i. It is entirely possible that it may also NOT work properly with the Tripp Lite inverter. Good idea to try before you buy.

There is a third option. You can change the UPS sensitivity. Most models come from the factory set at medium and that can be changed either manually (rear panel button on the APC 1000) or with the PowerChute Software. You want to set the sensitivity level to Low. I have done this with all of my APC battery power supplies and they work fine with any generator power source. The TrippLite may have a similar adjustment.

[spg571223]

They are probably using Fed Ex Ground which has rates comparable to UPS ground.

Well, it's good to know they are following the forum. That will have to help customer service! Those panels must be heavier than they look! My apologies!

Wonder would UPS ground be any less expensive?

[Spectre21]

professor95 wrote:

Spectre21 wrote:
$20 shipping? Ouch!

Apparently the owner of SuperGen Products is reading the thread. :B

Actually, you would probably be surprised at how many people read the postings but never make a comment on the thread. I can see how many are reading when I post photos because of the viewer stats available where I post my photos. Some days it can be several hundred or more.

I did get an e-mail from Ken at SuperGen this morning:

Ken at SuperGen wrote:
I see Spectre21 commented on the cost of shipping. You might let him know the package weighs 14 lbs and our base cost is $14.40 plus packaging materials. We are not large enough yet to avoid the Fed-X daily pick up surcharge so we are making a trip to FedEx Center 6.5 miles away for drop off. We are within pennies of the $20 shipping bill and certainly are not making a profit off of it. When our volume rises we can lower this cost to everyone. Our apologies for costs beyond our control.

Well, it's good to know they are following the forum. That will have to help customer service! Those panels must be heavier than they look! My apologies!

Wonder would UPS ground be any less expensive?

[msmd1]

professor95 wrote:
Champion has just released a Technical Service Bulletin that may be the answer to the problem msmd1 experienced.

In any event, it might be a good idea to print this out if you own a 46536 and stick it in your user manual. I am sure it will eventually make it to CPE's Web Site as well.

CPE TECH BULLETIN Model 46538 Tech Bulletin 9.08.2010
Wireless 3500w Champion Generator
Re: Proper procedure to start with dead battery-
When starting a Champion Model46538 3500 watt generator, it is important to follow the steps listed below.

1. If your battery is too low to start the generator by electric start with the wireless control, then unless you unplug the Ignition coil master lead wire, you will experience a shut down of the engine within the first 30 minutes of assumed normal operation. This engine shut down is a result of the wireless receiver receiving less than a 7 volt DC signal. Eventually, this signal is sent to the receiver and in turn, tells the generator to automatically shut itself off. Leaving you with a confusing thought!!
   
   
2. To locate the master lead Ignition wire, you will need to look over the top of the recoil and behind the front panel assembly. There is one single black wire that can be identified with a soft black covering about I" in length where the plug- in connector is located. Pulling in opposite directions at the plug- in connector, will separate this connection and allow a full by pass of the wireless receiver with the ignition system.
   
   
3. You now will be able to start the generator by using the choke manually at the push plate located at the top of the carburetor. A label above the choke will show how to push it manually for both choke and run positions. Please do not over choke before opening for air admission. 1 choke pull for every 4 run pulls is recommended.
   
   
4. After a manual starting, you will note your Intelligauge will light immediately upon the generator engine starting. It is also important to plug in your loads after the generator is started and unplug the loads prior to shutting the generator engine off. The Load control function that normally works with a charged battery will not function with a low or dead battery. It becomes disabled when the master Ignition wire is unplugged.
   
   
5. In order to stop the engine, the best method is to simply choke off the engine at the choke lever, or plug the ignition master lead together and then turn the panel rocker switch to the OFF position.
   
   
6. This procedure will allow you to use the generator safely until the battery is replaced or recharged.
   
   
7. Be sure to review the bulletin on low or dead battery usage and recharging.
8. Call our 24/7 hotline no. listed on the generator if you need more help with this operation.
   Champion Power Equipment Santa Fe Springs, CA

Thanks for the info, Professor. I saw it after I replied to your earlier response.

[msmd1]

professor95 wrote:

msmd1 wrote:
I like the gen tent. Might have to order one. On a different topic, but still concerning the 3000W Chinese generator thread, I got my new CPE 46538 out this morning because the electricity had been out since midnight. Things were getting a bit warm in the refrigerator. Checked the oil, filled it with fresh, stabilized gas and hit the remote. Nothing. Battery read 1.83 volts on my meter. Pull started the genset, ran it a few minutes to warm up, and then ran an extension cord to the refrigerator and plugged it in. It ran for about 30 minutes before shutting down all by itself. It never sounded like it was running "right". It sounded like it was not running at full rpm, even though the intelligauge showed 124 volts and 59.9 hertz. When it shut down, the voltage was 119 and hertz went to 56. The light in the refrigerator was pulsing from bright to dim very rapidly while hooked up to the generator. Does it need battery power for the automatic choke to operate? Does running the generator charge the starting battery? I have the battery out of it now, charging. Probably going to put a battery tender on it for storage. When I ran it in August after receiving it, it ran like a charm under load, but not today.
Thanks for the help.

The Battery Tender is an excellent idea. It is a given, the small battery in the electric start models will discharge if allowed to sit. There is some parasitic loss back through the rectifier and charge coil. If you cannot keep a float charger on the battery when the generator is not in use, it is best to either remove the negative lead from the battery or put a small switch in the wire from the charge coil so that it can be opened to prevent any current leakage.

Running the generator will charge the battery, but not with the efficiency or voltage regulation you will receive from the Battery Tender or a float charger.

The automatic choke is a solenoid. As such, it does need battery power to operate properly.

You said, "When it shut down, the voltage was 119 and hertz went to 56. The light in the refrigerator was pulsing from bright to dim very rapidly while hooked up to the generator."

I think you are telling us that the voltage and frequency dropped and the refrigerator light flashed as you were shutting the generator down? Or did all of this happen before you shut it down? How rapidly was the fridge light pulsing - once a second, 10 times a second, or what? During that time was the generator also surging (changing speed) or was it running smoothly? :?

A little more specificity will help me to understand. :h

I was inside checking the refrigerator and I heard the generator stumble. The light was flashing about 2-3 times a second, and it did so the entire time the generator was running, or at least every time I opened the door. I went out to the generator and was checking the gauge when I saw the 119 and 56, and then the generator stumbled and died. I charged the battery overnight and when reinstalling it, found a 4" white wire coming from the back of the left end of the control panel hanging loose. I cannot seem to find anywhere it should be connected. :?

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
With the New Kipor and it having a proven track record is there a jumping the Champion boat into the 'Kipor Ship':@

Floyd,
There are a lot of Kipor gennys out there and apparently the owner's are happy. Unfortunately, they are not that much less expensive than the Red or Blue products of the same size. You can shop around for price and come out a little better. In reality, it is not that different than "car" shopping.

I bought mine as a "demonstrator" with only 12 or so hours of run time from my RV dealer when the newer models came out. It had a few cosmetic dings on the case as well. As such, I paid far below normal retail or even wholesale. If it were not for the price break I doubt that I would have bought it. You know me well enough by now that I am a "deal" sucker. Just can't pass one up. :B

Shucks, I thought since you already had a nice Red Kipor that you were so in love with Yellow and Black you just had to have the new Mr. Kipor. Once you said you actually liked red. Maybe change is in the wind? Maybe we should take another lesson from Prof' and wait for that new Champion Inverter special @ $299 and I'm in, just want to know if DW can cook the goose in the MW.:W

[professor95]

spg571223 wrote:
I have a Champion 3500/4000 watt RV generator and my RV has a Tripplite 2000 watt Inverter/Charger. When I run the Champion generator to power the RV the Inverter charger does not sense the power coming from the generator and stays in inverter mode instead of switching to generator power and does not charge the house batteries. Voltage output reads 122 volts with a meter and the inverter/charger works if I am plugged in to shore power or if I plug in to a Yanmar Diesel 3700 watt generator I have. Any sugestions on how to check to see what the problem is. The Champion generator seems to run fine, it powers the 1500 watt water heater and the A/C unit in the RV with no problem.

tvman44 gave you a correct answer. I have the same problem when using my APC 1000 UPS with the generator. Apparently there is just enough "hash" or distortion on the signal that the inverter switching circuits interpret it as a power line failure.

There are two solutions:

One is to use a less expensive converter or battery charger ONLY when running the generator and turn off or unplug the TrippLite. I have a WFCO 45 amp converter with a regular AC plug on the input and alligator clips on the output that works well with the generator. It is also useful for charging other low or dead batteries around the ranch.

The second solution is to try an inverter like the Honda 3000i. It is entirely possible that it may also NOT work properly with the Tripp Lite inverter. Good idea to try before you buy.

[professor95]

Champion has just released a Technical Service Bulletin that may be the answer to the problem msmd1 experienced.

In any event, it might be a good idea to print this out if you own a 46538 and stick it in your user manual. I am sure it will eventually make it to CPE's Web Site as well.

CPE TECH BULLETIN Model 46538 Tech Bulletin 9.08.2010
Wireless 3500w Champion Generator
Re: Proper procedure to start with dead battery-
When starting a Champion Model46538 3500 watt generator, it is important to follow the steps listed below.

1. If your battery is too low to start the generator by electric start with the wireless control, then unless you unplug the Ignition coil master lead wire, you will experience a shut down of the engine within the first 30 minutes of assumed normal operation. This engine shut down is a result of the wireless receiver receiving less than a 7 volt DC signal. Eventually, this signal is sent to the receiver and in turn, tells the generator to automatically shut itself off. Leaving you with a confusing thought!!
   
   
2. To locate the master lead Ignition wire, you will need to look over the top of the recoil and behind the front panel assembly. There is one single black wire that can be identified with a soft black covering about I" in length where the plug- in connector is located. Pulling in opposite directions at the plug- in connector, will separate this connection and allow a full by pass of the wireless receiver with the ignition system.
   
   
3. You now will be able to start the generator by using the choke manually at the push plate located at the top of the carburetor. A label above the choke will show how to push it manually for both choke and run positions. Please do not over choke before opening for air admission. 1 choke pull for every 4 run pulls is recommended.
   
   
4. After a manual starting, you will note your Intelligauge will light immediately upon the generator engine starting. It is also important to plug in your loads after the generator is started and unplug the loads prior to shutting the generator engine off. The Load control function that normally works with a charged battery will not function with a low or dead battery. It becomes disabled when the master Ignition wire is unplugged.
   
   
5. In order to stop the engine, the best method is to simply choke off the engine at the choke lever, or plug the ignition master lead together and then turn the panel rocker switch to the OFF position.
   
   
6. This procedure will allow you to use the generator safely until the battery is replaced or recharged.
   
   
7. Be sure to review the bulletin on low or dead battery usage and recharging.
8. Call our 24/7 hotline no. listed on the generator if you need more help with this operation.
   Champion Power Equipment Santa Fe Springs, CA

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
With the New Kipor and it having a proven track record is there a jumping the Champion boat into the 'Kipor Ship':@

Floyd,
There are a lot of Kipor gennys out there and apparently the owner's are happy. Unfortunately, they are not that much less expensive than the Red or Blue products of the same size. You can shop around for price and come out a little better. In reality, it is not that different than "car" shopping.

I bought mine as a "demonstrator" with only 12 or so hours of run time from my RV dealer when the newer models came out. It had a few cosmetic dings on the case as well. As such, I paid far below normal retail or even wholesale. If it were not for the price break I doubt that I would have bought it. You know me well enough by now that I am a "deal" sucker. Just can't pass one up. :B

[professor95]

Spectre21 wrote:
$20 shipping? Ouch!

Apparently the owner of SuperGen Products is reading the thread. :B

Actually, you would probably be surprised at how many people read the postings but never make a comment on the thread. I can see how many are reading when I post photos because of the viewer stats available where I post my photos. Some days it can be several hundred or more.

I did get an e-mail from Ken at SuperGen this morning:

Ken at SuperGen wrote:
I see Spectre21 commented on the cost of shipping. You might let him know the package weighs 14 lbs and our base cost is $14.40 plus packaging materials. We are not large enough yet to avoid the Fed-X daily pick up surcharge so we are making a trip to FedEx Center 6.5 miles away for drop off. We are within pennies of the $20 shipping bill and certainly are not making a profit off of it. When our volume rises we can lower this cost to everyone. Our apologies for costs beyond our control.

[tvman44]

Possibly the inverter/charger does not like the wave form from the ginny.

[spg571223]

I have a Champion 3500/4000 watt RV generator and my RV has a Tripplite 2000 watt Inverter/Charger. When I run the Champion generator to power the RV the Inverter charger does not sense the power coming from the generator and stays in inverter mode instead of switching to generator power and does not charge the house batteries. Voltage output reads 122 volts with a meter and the inverter/charger works if I am plugged in to shore power or if I plug in to a Yanmar Diesel 3700 watt generator I have. Any sugestions on how to check to see what the problem is. The Champion generator seems to run fine, it powers the 1500 watt water heater and the A/C unit in the RV with no problem.

[MrWizard]

Since it.comes with the Azdel fiberglass panels and the frame members there is some weight to be shipped,
IDK how much, but its not just some folded cloth