3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

bill h wrote:
There are a lot of rattletraps out there truly powered by Honda.

SNIP

I have an open frame Honda that is a real barker.

Bill is right. There is no magic to a GX engine design just because it has the Honda name.

I think it was March of '05 that we started this thread. JD was the big Chinese small engine company. Champion Power Equipment was just getting started and was a really little player in the Chinese genny field.

The Honda GX160 was introduced to the world in 1991. It was a design that actually was more similar to the defunct Clinton engine than the perfectly vertical flat head small horizontal shaft engines being used at the time. The OHV arrangement was considered absolutely revolutionary for the small engine market.

It did not take long for Honda to expand the GX line to include larger displacement engines - like the GX200 and GX390.

I tried to verify how the Chonda (Chinese copy of Honda) engine came to be. There were reports of Honda's patent on the GX engine expiring. I could find no truth to verify this - as far as I know the Honda patent is still there and had a 50 year lifespan that expires in 2041. Another report was that JD licensed the GX type engine from Honda and even built them for Honda. Again, never could find proof the report was true.

As far as I know Honda GX engines were never built in China. They did move their manufacturing of the GX series to Thailand in 2002 (no, they are no longer made in Japan). Honda does have a large facility in China, but I do not know what they make.

Anyway, the Chinese apparently took the GX engine and reverse engineered it. That is a nice way of saying that they copied or stole the design. Why Honda did not or could not enforce patents is unclear. But in '95 or '96, which is the date I believe the Chinese began to make GX copies, patents were difficult to enforce in China. In fact, they still are.

The GX design engine is now the mainstay of the Chinese small engine manufacturing world. Ironically, some companies have actually improved on the Honda design - CPE being one I am aware of with a redesigned valve rocker assembly, double lip crank oil seal, and non-stick oil level float being the most prominent. But, CPE does not make any connection to Honda's design in their engines. In fact - they openly say it is not Honda based! One look tells you different.

The Chinese did design the large three chamber muffler commonly used on their generators. It was not a Honda item. The muffler was considerably quieter than OEM Honda pipe frame power equipment like generators that made them much quieter than those with true Honda engines.

Northern Tool was a big seller of generators carrying the North Star logo with everything except the engine built by a 3rd party in China. They then bolted on the real Honda engine.

If you really want to know about the durability of the real Honda GX160 compared to the Chonda you should visit some of the go-cart racing forums. There is a real mix of opinions there as to the quality of the Chonda GX160 and GX200. One of the weak spots of the real Honda is in the block. Oddly enough the block cracking problem doesn't appear in the Chonda GX engines - go figure!



What it really comes down too is how well the engine is built. Most of these engines are bought as unfinished castings from one of two major foundries and stampings from dozens of companies. The companies then do their own machining and assembly. Problems with so called inferior steel and aluminum for cranks, rods, pistons, etc. seems to be a myth as well. The structural integrity of these components is comparable or equal to the Honda components.

Honda also introduced the GC160 engines (Note: GC not GX), which the Chinese did NOT copy, as a low cost competitor and exact fit replacement for the 5 hp Briggs engine. The GC did not have a cast iron sleeve in the cylinder and was a OHV vertical cylinder engine. They were NOT very durable engines.

I guess the bottom line is the Chinese GX engine is an extremely strong, durable engine built from the Honda design. Some Chinese companies do not have the machining or assembly quality of their competitors nor do they test their assembled engines - these are the ones that give the Chonda a bad name.

Those that say the Thailand built Honda GX is a better and perhaps quieter engine simply are victims of advertising and brand recognition hype. They also have deper pockets as the Honda name on a GX engine doubles the price.

Ain't no difference is sound from the engine unless a defferent muffler like the Chinese actually made themselves is used. The Chinese were able to knock 5+ dba off with just the muffler.

I have one real Honda GX160 engine that is running a CPE carburetor, (Honda wanted $100, CPE $32) a Honda GC160 with a broken crank (end 1" just snapped off), A Champion GX160 on a water pump, a Chonda GX200 on a Track Vac (replaced a blown Briggs), a CPE GX200 on my pressure washer (Briggs died), of course - on the Generator(s) and I am in the process of converting my vertical shaft Tecumseh powered 22 ton log splitter to a Horizontal shaft GX200 CPE electric start engine. I put a CPE carburetor on the Tecumseh when I discovered it had a EPA regulated non-rebuildable unit that required buying a new carburetor (not a kit) for $76 plus shipping.

A 206CC 5hp Briggs still powers my rototiller and my three riding mowers are Kohler powered. Two of the Kohler engines have been replaced.

Out of the entire lot of small gasoline engine powered equipment, the Chinese GX style engines are giving the best service and are the easiest and quickest to get parts for. I call CPE, give my CC# and in 3 days or less my part is delivered to my door - again for a fraction of what a real Honda, Briggs, Kohler or Tecumseh part costs.