3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

daytona7 wrote:
Professor. (hand waving) May I have another try? How would heating duct booster fans work bringing cooler outside air into the AVR and manual start with another drawing hot air out from the back?

That is the better approach. As shown in the photos below (posted several years ago) there are two air flow patterns - as you noted one is INTO the back of the alternator, across the AVR and out the bottom where it bolts to the engine. The other is the typical inlet to the fan on the recoil starter, around the cylinder and over the top of the alternator and muffler.

The muffler is still a problem as approximately half of the total BTU's generated by combustion are radiated in that metal chamber. If any way possible get it outside and away from your compartment.

One of the major problems I encountered when I began experimenting with compartment cooling is pushing too much air into the compartment. This created a positive pressure which disrupted design air flow. The most successful approach temperature wise was to use only an exhaust fan under the junction of the engine and alternator with fresh air openings that excluded internal heated air at the starter and alternator end. In a compartment you want the negative static pressure (air flow strength) to be able to snap a newspaper tightly over either fresh air inlet. If you can't get the newspaper to hold to the opening you will not have enough directed air flow to cool the beast.

I have included some shots of the exhaust fan I use (electric radiator fan) in a box that the engine sits on top of. Cool air is brought into the "cave" through a refrigerator grill mounted in the hatch. There is a smaller 6" muffin fan mounted on the AVR end. Note the muffler is outside. The red "flag" blowing straight out with the fan on the test bench will give you some idea of the air flow. If the fan will remove the heat from the radiator of a 2.5L water cooled engine it will remove the heat of a 200cc air cooled engine :B

This has worked well for me over the past several years. BTW - there is no gasoline in the tank. Fuel is propane.

[daytona7]

Professor. (hand waving) May I have another try? How would heating duct booster fans work bringing cooler outside air into the AVR and manual start with another drawing hot air out from the back?

[professor95]

daytona7 wrote:
Then I would also have to worry about grounding of the genny. Now I'm starting to wonder if my reading your postings and the replies was such a bright idea.

You made me laugh! :B :B

On bending the fan blades..... the catch 22 is the power of the fan motor. Often changing the blade pitch will create too much of a resistance for the motor, it gets hot and all the smoke comes out. It is also extremely hard to bend each blade to the same pitch without a jig of some sort.

Sorry 😛

[daytona7]

Actually, I was thinking of bending the fan blades so there was more pitch hopefully to generate more air then mounting the fan in a shroud to match up with the AVG cover and pull start. As far as the sound proof box. Instead of using Velcro which the hot Florida sun softens up the adhesive, I used Elemer's Wood Glue to mount 3/8" dia magnets into the Styrofoam Sheets. Finding the Owens/Corning Pink is like trying to find an honest and ethical politician. So far the glue holding the magnets has not loosened up. I'm just wondering how a sound box and generator would be during a possible Hurricane if I'm unable to move my RV in time. Then I would also have to worry about grounding of the genny. Now I'm starting to wonder if my reading your postings and the replies was such a bright idea.

[professor95]

daytona7 wrote:
Looking at the pictures on the air cooling, what did you use for the fan shield on the manual start? Since my Champion is new and under warranty, rerouting the muffler and making a new box is out of the question. I'm thinking of using a few 8 inch desk fans for the cooling and attaching an extension for the spark arrester. Would the 8 inch desk fans be sufficient?

Unfortunately, it isn't that simple.

There is a specific path for the flow of air around the engine and alternator that must be maintained. Brute force cooling attempts of placing fans around the genny rarely work and often do more harm to design cooling than they help. Only exception is an exhaust fan to pull hot air out of a semi-enclosed area with a cold air intake. You need at least 300 working CFM from an exhaust fan. Desk fans are rated in free air and typically are only 25-50 CFM, much, much less under load. Since the muffler is a major source of heat it really needs to be moved away - an extension added to the spark arrestor will only create more heat in the muffler due to increased back pressure.

You can fabricate flanges and pipes to move the muffler in a manner that allows putting everything back stock if there is a warranty issue later on.

I know there is a lot of info written behind this post and it takes a real effort to find something - I really wish we had some sort of index for the thread! Anyway, I have written a considerable amount of info on the cooling system required as have a couple of other contributors. There are also step-by-step instructions with pics showing how to make the exhaust flanges from 1/2" or 3/4" black iron pipe floor flanges.

[professor95]

CJW8 wrote:
A 3/4" socket, I'm sure there must be a metric size that fits, chucked up to my DeWalt cordless drill makes an effective electric starter for a Champion 3500/4000, when your rope start break. Remove the recoil starter, Set the drill to turn to the right put the socket on the flywheel nut and pill the trigger. As soon as the engine fires, quickly pull the socket off.

19 mm is same as 3/4" SAE

Word of warning though - Be sure the cordless drill you use is not powerful enough to turn the flywheel nut (no impact tools). I broke (cracked) a flywheel on one of these engines by over tightening the flywheel nut. Also note when the engine starts you must pull the socket off of the nut very quickly as there is usually no ratchet or clutch in the drill to create a release.

[CJW8]

A 3/4" socket, I'm sure there must be a metric size that fits, chucked up to my DeWalt cordless drill makes an effective electric starter for a Champion 3500/4000, when your rope start break. Remove the recoil starter, Set the drill to turn to the right put the socket on the flywheel nut and pill the trigger. As soon as the engine fires, quickly pull the socket off.

If these engines don't start in 3-4 pulls, something is wrong. I couldn't believe my carb was all gummed up because I used Stabil and started the generator occasionally. After I broke the start rope, I investigated and found green slime in the carb. I replaced it with another one that I had after cleaning it proved ineffective and it started right up. Also, the last time that I ran it, it was surging at idle so I knew something was up.

[daytona7]

Looking at the pictures on the air cooling, what did you use for the fan shield on the manual start? Since my Champion is new and under warranty, rerouting the muffler and making a new box is out of the question. I'm thinking of using a few 8 inch desk fans for the cooling and attaching an extension for the spark arrester. Would the 8 inch desk fans be sufficient?

[professor95]

daytona7 wrote:
-snip-
Shame that the professor can not produce a DVD on this subject along with pictures for people like me who are slowing down due age or are just thick headed. I'd be the first to order a few. I have to figure how to save all of his information on a CD for future reference.
THANKS a million professor95 and everyone else!

I'm getting older and slowing down too. And, according to Nancy, often exhibit the thick headed trait. The CD or DVD of all postings from everybody on the 3,000 Watt Chinese Genny Info thread would be a great thing to have. Unfortunately, I don't know how to transfer all of the stuff to a DVD - and if I did I would imagine the time involved would be tremendous. Maybe someone more familiar with archival to another medium will complete the project before all the info disappears.

[daytona7]

Just got my first generator two weeks ago, Champion 46515, for my 5th wheel after loosing electric last week when a tree fell over the power lines. This subject and professor95's replies are a God send to me. Not that I'm slighting everyone else who have posted here but the professor gives a lot more info that even I can understand, well, most of the time anyway. Shame that the professor can not produce a DVD on this subject along with pictures for people like me who are slowing down due age or are just thick headed. I'd be the first to order a few. I have to figure how to save all of his information on a CD for future reference.
THANKS a million professor95 and everyone else!

[MrWizard]

it can be done, the Professor did it with his Fw
but it takes forced air cooling and moving the entire muffler outside

I put mine on heavy pantry drawer a slides so I could move it in and out

in for storage and out when I want to use it

[daytona7]

Just purchased my first Champion 46515 $279 from CW Tampa. Have a 35 ft Cameo that is pre-wired for an Onan genny in the front basement. Am thinking(smell of burning rubber) of installing the genny there and would accept any and all info on converting to electric start using pre-wired start, exhaust rerouting for and placing in basement. Have saved the info on softening the sound. Get 70 db with genny running no load 5 to 15 foot away but just barely hear it while inside. Main use would be for power outages and possibly overnight Wallymart or truck stop camping.

[MrWizard]

based on my useage, i would estimate 1/3 gallon an hr when all i'm doing is charging batteries and using the laptop
thats 3 hrs per gallon not 8hrs per gal, using the 3k
when i had the 1200w, i got 5-6 hrs per tank while charging batteries and a few minutes of 1000w MW use, not 10hrs,
600w is an awful small amount of power,
i don't know how you could keep to that level unless all you did was use a portable battery charger set at 20-25 amps or less

I think you can buy the intelliguage from cpe parts

i have seen the wiring connection and its only 2 wires, that connect across the 120v line, its completely self contained, a real nice little gadget

call them , good luck

[HogsofWar]

Has anyone looked at the 1200 watt 42431 and notice that it comes with an "intelligauge" that measures volts, frequency and hours?

Sure would be handy to mount on my 46514 instead of having to find my kill-a-watt to verify everything is good to go. Anyone know if the gunge is available separately and if it could be mounted on a 3500 watt model?

There's also the question of "miles per gallon". I've been thinking about the amount of gasoline I keep on hand and wondering if it's enough if we have another major storm.

The 42431 claims to use 1.2 gallons over 10 hours at 50% load, while the 46514 uses 4 gallons. Will the 46514 get similar "mileage" if I only pull 600 watts? I know it won't be as good, but just how close would it be?

[mrekim]

I've been doing some testing with a 3500 Watt Champion and natural gas. I've been running it in 120 volt mode. When running on gas with no venturi (for nat gas) in front of the carburetor I can get the generator to run with a 28.5 amp load. With a venturi and still using gasoline I couldn't get the generator to handle a 12 amp load. With natural gas and tweaking the load block for best possible performance I was able to get as much as 22 amps.

At some point I may try this test on propane, but I don't have the right connections right now to do that. I would expect propane to be somewhere between these gasoline and natural gas results.

My test set up is a portable electric heater, a hair dryer and heat gun. The hair dryer and heat gun can be run a different loads.