3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[SaltiDawg]

Final update. I accomplished my US Carb Trifuel modification to my generator using their new "Snorkel" Design. Very easy mod to install, no cutting frames, etc. (The design looks like a knockoff of the professor's cutting board design.)

In any event, generator operates great on liquid propane. I bought a $27.50 kit on amazon.com that allows be to connect two 20# propane bottles in parallel and thus extend the operating time and possibly avoid freeze up at low ambient temps and/or high demand. (My generator is rated at 7500 continuous Watts.)

I will be adding a Kill A Volt over protection device based on the info in this great thread.

Final question. There seems to be little doubt that if using gasoline as the generator fuel, that a wise thing to do is periodically (say monthly) run the generator for a while and then run it out of fuel before storing away until needed or until the next monthly test run.

Is there an argument to be made for test running a propane only fueled generator on a monthly basis? I have a trickle charger on the starter battery so I was thinking I might test run it once or twice a hurricane season and also a few days before a predicted storm arrival.

[SaltiDawg]

Just a follow up. I ran my new Smarter Tools ST-GP 9500 yesterday for the first time. (I have modified it to run on propane or NG as well as its intended fuel, gasoline.)

I ran it for five hours to make sure it operates fine electrically before I complete the propane mod by trilling bolt holes in the frame.

It ran flawlessly out of the box for five hours under various loads up to about 60% capacity. That said, there was a flaw... the battery had completely discharged during the five hours!

Smarter Tools Customer Service has been great during the past few months. They E-mailed my an electric schematic, answered numerous questions, and has made the task easy!

They had me make a voltage check, even sending me pictures and instructions as to how to do the check. with that result in hand, they are UPS ing me the replacement diode and detailed instructions.

Off course, I could take it back to Costco but where's the challenge in that?

After correcting this issue, I will again run it on gasoline to very the repair and next I will finish my US Carb Snorkel Kit install and run for five more hours at various loads on propane.

I finally did go back and read almost all of this thread from the beginning. If I had not found this thread I have to wonder if I would have proceeded.

[MrRchitty]

professor95 wrote:
Well shucks - I missed a birthday. It is hard to believe that this thread is still here after eight years. It was started on 3-2-2005. I was a much younger man back then 🙂 I am extremely thankful for all the great friends I have made thru this thread!

Very nice.....thank you!

[fellow_traveler]

Hey thanks for your musings and great help and advice to think its lasted this long is a mile stone and you deserve many kudos for your part and long testing hours and suggestions your a prince among us unwashed your pal Fellow traveler

[fellow_traveler]

your opus my friend

[Happy_Waver]

professor95 wrote:
Well shucks - I missed a birthday. It is hard to believe that this thread is still here after eight years. It was started on 3-2-2005. I was a much younger man back then 🙂 I am extremely thankful for all the great friends I have made thru this thread!

And I think I can speak for many and thank you for all your input

[professor95]

Well shucks - I missed a birthday. It is hard to believe that this thread is still here after eight years. It was started on 3-2-2005. I was a much younger man back then 🙂 I am extremely thankful for all the great friends I have made thru this thread!

[Gulfcoast]

I tried one of the new Champion 2000-watt inverter gens... it would not start any of my tools that had an electric motor on it, so it took it back for a refund.

I'm sticking with my old Champion 3500-watt rig, it will run anything I need it too.

In simple terms, the Tractor Supply Co. Champion generator is perfect for me.

Have a nice day...

[SaltiDawg]

I sent an E-mail to Customer Service at Smarter Tools asking for an Electrical Schematic and posing a question about high voltage control. I received the schematic and an answer to my question within 30 minutes - along with a nice note.

I replied and this afternoon the Rep and I swapped 2-3 Emails and swapped "sea stories" about my days on submarines.

I am impressed and the rep made it clear that I should not hesitate to call or E-mail if I have additional questions or if any problems come up.

I could not have asked for more.

So far, so good!

[SaltiDawg]

I am struggling to find out specifics about the generator end.

I don't yet know how to get a schematic for the generator circuitry. I don't know if it has over-voltage protection, for example.

The same day I bought this Smarter Tools generator last week, my wife and I visited our local Costco (Rockville, MD.) They had a Champion generator of similar capacity for $100 less. Now that I've read about 76 pages of this forum, I kinda wish I had bought the Champion as there seems to be near complete satisfaction here with Champion's Customer service as well as the product.

The saving grace for my decision to purchase the other unit is that it is Costco, and their return policy is extremely liberal.

Again, thanks for the help.

[mrekim]

SaltiDawg wrote:
Thank you both for the replies... my comment about not planning to put gasoline in to the tank was really meaning to say I didn't want to introduce into the carburetor, hoses, nor into the bowl more so than into the tank.

When I'm done with the break in, I'll send some time with compressed air trying to get rid of any residual gasoline.

I'm sure I'll have more questions down the road.

Again, thanks!

You can use an external tank and get a fuel line from napa. Run the engine out of gasoline before running on propane or nat gas. Only the carb will have gasoline through it.

I'm pretty sure that just running the engine will cause the carb to get cleaned out since the vacuum will still be present sucking fumes, etc out of the bowel.

As an aside, I don't think you ever want to *not* run the fuel out of the carb before switching to propane/nat gas. I did that once, and it ran very poorly for a short time. I think this is because it was basically getting way too much fuel (gasoline + natural gas).

[jimmyfred]

SaltiDawg wrote:
Thank you both for the replies... my comment about not planning to put gasoline in to the tank was really meaning to say I didn't want to introduce into the carburetor, hoses, nor into the bowl more so than into the tank.

When I'm done with the break in, I'll send some time with compressed air trying to get rid of any residual gasoline.

I'm sure I'll have more questions down the road.

Again, thanks!

[jimmyfred]

SaltiDawg wrote:
Thank you both for the replies... my comment about not planning to put gasoline in to the tank was really meaning to say I didn't want to introduce into the carburetor, hoses, nor into the bowl more so than into the tank.

When I'm done with the break in, I'll send some time with compressed air trying to get rid of any residual gasoline.

I'm sure I'll have more questions down the road.

Again, thanks!

..........There are stations that sell regular UNleaded gas without the Ethanol mixed in ! Google your area and see if regular UNleaded is available , IF Yes , that would be what I use for Breakin before moving over to propane ! , jf

[SaltiDawg]

Thank you both for the replies... my comment about not planning to put gasoline in to the tank was really meaning to say I didn't want to introduce into the carburetor, hoses, nor into the bowl more so than into the tank.

When I'm done with the break in, I'll send some time with compressed air trying to get rid of any residual gasoline.

I'm sure I'll have more questions down the road.

Again, thanks!

[HiTech]

An engine works harder during break in, and the higher energy content of quality gasoline is preferable until it is making full power. In addition, gasoline will wash down the cylinder walls of oil more than non-liquid fuel would, helping to set the rings as they wear against the cylinder honing hashes on the cylinder walls as they wear off, which you want while breaking in. An improperly broken in engine will use more oil and fuel over its lifetime. After it is broken in, I like to switch air cooled engines over to full synthetic oils as the polymer chains in synthetic are less prone to break down in the hot spots you see in air cooled engines.

I would do as they say.

Jim