3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[pianotuna]

Hi prof,

The link to the 3500 watt unit takes me to a 2000 watt Champion.

professor95 wrote:

The new 3100i did not offer electric start or remote control, two features I had come to appreciate on my 3500 watt, remote controlled electric start unit that ended up being mounted in my TV to provide power to either the camper or truck.

[AZDesertRat]

If anyone is interested, in todays May 17 Sportsmans Warehouse ad they have the 4000w Champions on sale for $299 until May 27th.

[JConatser]

The new inverter generator is a 3100W Chinese Genset, right?... and this thread's title is: 3000W Chinese Gensets Info. Nothing in the thread title distinguishes between an inverter and a synchronous generator. And just because the new one is a 3100W and not a 3000W is irrelevant---the old one isn't really a 3000W either.

To me it's logical that the new one's info should stay in this thread. So, FWIW, that's my vote.

[2bnb_driver]

I think this thread has evolved and expanded to the point where a chinese 3000 watt Inverter generator thread may be in order. This has been a wonderful journey but much meaningful information is lost across the board when information becomes overly lengthy and uncatagorized. I know that would make more sense if this thread title was labeled syncronous, but who ever thought this thread would still be alive and contain such an overwhelming amount of information. Thats my opinion, but whatever Randy chooses to do is fine by me. I just read and learn,

Mark

[Rolling_Condo]

I'm conflicted about keeping the new genny in this thread. My view point would be aimed at any and all inverter series vs. the synchronus variety. Reason behind this would be based on the ability to parallel the inverter variety.
No doubts I will continue to follow any and all threads on the generator scene.

[SaltiDawg]

MrRchitty wrote:
Same thread would be relevant. However, it is truly up to you. I wish you well.

I agree.

[MrRchitty]

Same thread would be relevant. However, it is truly up to you. I wish you well.

[Unyalli]

Agreed new thread. As always Prof appreciated.

Jeff

[professor95]

Wgeorge11 wrote:
Thanks for the post Prof. Since my favorite son recently destroyed one of my gens I've been looking for a replacement. Your input is as good as the gold standard, certainly worthy of consideration.
Meanwhile, DO NOT move this post to another forum. It fits well with our information needs and would only create another unnecessary search by old analogue dudes like me. This forum is one of a few places I truly put my trust into. And you are the heart of it all. Thank you.

Well, one says move, the other says no. Hummm.......

The bad thing is I landed in the horsepistol... er, hospital, right after I made the post so nothing new - that is other than an abscess on my colon that hurts like Hades and has to be cut out once it is less inflamed (about 6 weeks from now).

I DO LIKE this genny and look forward to CPE's possible advance of the design to include electric start with the remote along with the ability to parallel or sync with another unit - even if I never end up with a second generation product unless SuperGen has a liberal trade-in program :).

Speaking of sync or parallel operation - I do not know how that would work. I mean, I am sure you could put two 3100i units together when that feature is added but I know nothing about the compatibility of other CPE units. For example, could I (if I wanted to) sync one or even both of my 2000i units to the 3100i? I know you can sync a CPE1000i to a 2000i and I have even been privy to a test sync'ing 4-CPE 2000i units together even though I know of no commercial cable you can buy to allow that. If you owned two of the current 3100i units (or a 3100i and even a xxx 120 volt non-synchronous genset) and had a camper with a 50 amp (actually 50-50 amp) power cord it would be safe to have one 3100i on each of the two 120VAC 50 amp feeds with one of those dual 30-20 cheater adapters as long as the common neutral current did not exceed 50 amps (6000 watts) - which it would not. For big rigs this would give the ability to power TWO air conditioners with relatively low dBA levels (compared to a single 6,000 to 9,000 watt genny).

I don't approve of unauthorized use without licensing of another companies design/property rights unless patents have expired and I would prefer that this unit was a made in the USA item. But, it is made in China and sold in the USA to the benefit of many USA employees and sellers. As far as design rights or license with others (Yamaha?) I know CPE is not a thief and they will not use the name Yamaha or make any reference to the brand just as they did not with the synchronous units to Honda and the GX series engine all over the China brand line - but we all know of the similarities and I appreciate knowing the design has been well tested. It is a different world than what I grew up in and International design royalties/trade has changed drastically. It is what it is. so, any use of the name Yamaha in citing similarities you may find here is strictly my own observation and nothing from CPE. As I said earlier - I have no horse in this race and just want a good solid product that does the job it is claimed to do without crapping out in the middle of the show - and doesn't take two retirement checks to pay for. Just buying diesel fuel to get on the road with the RV is enough expense. (guess you can tell I'm bored and my mind is rambling?)

OK good news for me....Dr. just came in and I go home tomorrow. Maybe I can at least take the covers off the 3100i and make some photos of the innards to share? I know the Dr. isn't going to let me pull the cylinder head off the Volvo D12 to change injector seals and cups so it might as well be the 3100i. I have to do something - I can't just sit or I will go crazy.

[SaltiDawg]

professor95 wrote:

... My suggestion is 15 minutes every 2 weeks but at the worst monthly. ...

Regular exercise is just a smart thing to do.

Thanks! I'll be running it every two weeks!

I'm glad to see you're actively posting again re your new project. I have read essentially this entire thread and while I am not an RVer, I have learned much valuable information!

[Wgeorge11]

Thanks for the post Prof. Since my favorite son recently destroyed one of my gens I've been looking for a replacement. Your input is as good as the gold standard, certainly worthy of consideration.
Meanwhile, DO NOT move this post to another forum. It fits well with our information needs and would only create another unnecessary search by old analogue dudes like me. This forum is one of a few places I truly put my trust into. And you are the heart of it all. Thank you.

[JiminDenver]

I can't think of any poster I'm happier that got one of these than you Prof. Even happier with your initial assessment. 15K AC, fridge on electric AND the microwave...... WOW I might get a respectable generator yet. 🙂

I think it deserves it's own thread if only to make it more exposed to those looking. Also compared to the 3500/4000, it's a whole new beast. The one thing I hope it has in common is the dependability.

Oh yeah...I envy you. lol

[professor95]

I had decided months ago that I would not buy one of the new CPE 3100i watt inverter generators when they became available.

I had previously purchased a pair of 2000 watt inverter generators and the parallel kit. Sorry to have to say it, but I was somewhat disappointed that the 2000i would only provide dependable power to the 1700 watt level. The overload was fast, even after the upgrade of the inverters module. Still, it was a great unit if you were content with 1700 watts max rather than 2000 watts.

The new 3100i did not offer electric start or remote control, two features I had come to appreciate on my 3500 watt, remote controlled electric start unit that ended up being mounted in my TV to provide power to either the camper or truck. Without the RF remote and/or electric start I had to physically get out of the camper or truck and pull a rope. For me, sort of inconvenient.

Then, last week when NASCAR came to town two of my friends that work with Super Gen Products drove down from NY for the race. They just so happened to have a brand new sealed box 3100i with them.

When they came by the house we took the thing out of the box and added the required engine oil and a gallon of gasoline. I turned on the fuel valve and let it sit for a few minutes to allow gas to fill the carburetor float bowl and gave the rope a 1/2 pull. It immediately started.

We rolled the unit down to my camper, disconnected the camper's 50 amp power cord from its storage outlet and plugged in a 50 to 30 amp adapter. The 3100i has a 30 amp TT outlet that is only protected by the electronic overload. The 20 amp standard outlet has a 20 amp circuit breaker. Once connected and running I turned on the 15K BTU air conditioner. The 3100i was in econ mode and barely burped as the A/C compressor locked in. The converter was on but the batteries in the camper were at a full charge. I also had the fridge on electric which added another 370 watts to the load. At that point I filled a cup with water, placed it in the 1100 watt Dometic microwave and hit the start button. The 3100i revved up to compensate for the new added load then settled back down to a flat speed. This thing was sweet!

I noticed that the overload delay was long. Much, much longer than the 2000i. This indicated that the 3100 watts was perhaps attainable. The unit is rated for 2800 watts with a maximum of 3100. While I did not measure the dB sound levels or actual current being drawn I can tell you it was impressively quite.

When it came time to put the thing back in the box for a trip home to NY I began to feel some pain. Being a guy that has an admitted obsession to own most every tool made I just couldn't let it leave. Besides, my tax return was sitting in my bank account still unspent.

I bought it. It belongs to me. Right now I know little more than what I have just written other than it has a 171 cc engine that appears to be more along the design of the Yamaha than Honda GX style engines we are used to seeing on the 3,000 watt Chinese open frame synchronous generators.

Of course, as time allows, I will do a full comparison with this unit and my existing 2000i twins along with the 3500 watt synchronous. You know - sound levels, wattage, fuel consumption, etc. I also intend to do a disassembly of the outer case and photograph the inner workings. This may take awhile as I am not planning on being at the shop much this summer. With the DW now retired as well we have lots of places to go and things to do.

I'm not even sure if I should continue this thread with the 3000i - but it is a product that fits the thread title and purpose. What do you think? New thread or here?

While I may seem crazy with my generator collection, I can assure you all of them are put to good use when we lose power in our rural last-to-restore power service location. When that happens they are all quickly loaned out to family and neighbors so some comfort can be achieved.

I think this generator is going to be a real winner. But, the difference in price between a Tractor Supply sale priced bare bones 3500 watt synchronous genny at $299 on sale or even the regular price of $349 is significant. The suggested retail price of the 3100 is just shy of a grand. But that is still much less than a red, blue or Powerhouse (Magna rebranded) 3100i. Due to the short supply of CPE3100i gensets I suspect the price will stay up there for awhile. Maybe a future offering by Costco or Sam's will be lower - just guessing. But for now, expect to pay near retail.

BTW, I have NO horse in this race and have no financial agreement or connection to CPE or SuperGenProducts.

[professor95]

SaltiDawg wrote:


I will be adding a Kill A Volt over protection device based on the info in this great thread.

Final question. There seems to be little doubt that if using gasoline as the generator fuel, that a wise thing to do is periodically (say monthly) run the generator for a while and then run it out of fuel before storing away until needed or until the next monthly test run.

Is there an argument to be made for test running a propane only fueled generator on a monthly basis? I have a trickle charger on the starter battery so I was thinking I might test run it once or twice a hurricane season and also a few days before a predicted storm arrival.

Adding the KillaVolt is a smart move for any synchronous open frame generator using a potted solid state AVR at the accessible end cap of the generator. If one should fail things get really nasty for anything connected. 170 VAC can destroy any surge protector or unprotected appliance. Many models of CPE generators have the device built in under the name of Volt Guard. I designed (invented) the thing about 4-5 years ago and GAVE THE DESIGN AWAY with no royalties so that we could reduce the risk of frying our appliances.

IMHO, a generator that has any importance to provide power in an emergency should be exercised on a regular schedule regardless of the fuel it uses. My suggestion is 15 minutes every 2 weeks but at the worst monthly. The generator and engine are always exposed to moisture via humidity and moisture results in metal oxidation. Exercising the genset gets the oil hot and as a result helps to avoid oxidation. I have discovered oxidation on the surface of the flywheel on some GX style engines that is deposited between the flywheel magnets and coil. When this happens you can lose spark.

Regular exercise is just a smart thing to do.

[JiminDenver]

You still need to exercise it to keep the windings dry.