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Battery that can be part of the structure of a vehicle

profdant139
Explorer II
Explorer II
I stumbled upon this interesting article -- the researchers have developed a battery that can also serve as a structural member. Thus, the battery may no longer be a dead weight but instead is part of the vehicle. They don't mention RVs, but it seems like this product might fit our needs, if it ever pans out:

Massless or structural battery article

Just another possible development to watch!
2012 Fun Finder X-139 "Boondock Style" (axle-flipped and extra insulation)
2013 Toyota Tacoma Off-Road (semi-beefy tires and components)
Our trips -- pix and text
About our trailer
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single list."
18 REPLIES 18

free_radical
Explorer
Explorer
robatthelake wrote:
Iโ€™m happy in the knowledge that I likely wonโ€™t still be buying or driving when all this comes to pass.
Unless of course the human race discovers how to recycle my earthly body!


How about this,,human ashes made into diamonds ๐Ÿ™‚

https://youtu.be/5-36Os75QP8

free_radical
Explorer
Explorer
gbopp wrote:
Nowadays anything is possible. I think rlw999 nailed it. Planned obsolescence may be coming.

It was always here,,ever tried to replace battery in any new cell phone ?

Btw Tesla 4680 batts will go milion or more miles,plenty for me Lol

robatthelake
Explorer
Explorer
Iโ€™m happy in the knowledge that I likely wonโ€™t still be buying or driving when all this comes to pass.
Unless of course the human race discovers how to recycle my earthly body!
Rob & Jean
98 Dutch Star Diesel Pusher ..07 Honda CRV AWD

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
naturist wrote:
The fly in that particular ointment: the development of the solid state battery, which promises a nearly infinite lifespan because the dendrite formation that kills most batteries isn't possible with a solid electrolyte.


Unfortunately apparently not.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590238520301284

"However, recent studies have proved that the Li dendrite also grows and propagates in the solid electrolyte during cycling, and even more severely than in batteries using liquid electrolytes, because of the uneven charge distribution at the interface of electrolyte and electrode. "
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Mel_Stuplich
Explorer
Explorer
QCMan wrote:
Wasn't the early Vega designed as a throwaway? It had a no sleeve block that had a very finite lifespan. Sounds like disposable design to me as the motor replacement was more than the car was worth.

QCMan
Although Chevy did not design the Vega as a throwaway that's how they ended up.... (body & suspension rust, not the no sleeve block, got mine).

naturist
Nomad
Nomad
The fly in that particular ointment: the development of the solid state battery, which promises a nearly infinite lifespan because the dendrite formation that kills most batteries isn't possible with a solid electrolyte.

JaxDad
Explorer III
Explorer III
The big question as I see it is the net result of changing the equation.

If structural batteries only have 20% of the energy capacity by weight how does the mass of having 5 times as much battery compare to current options?

gbopp
Explorer
Explorer
Nowadays anything is possible. I think rlw999 nailed it. Planned obsolescence may be coming.

Gdetrailer
Explorer III
Explorer III
profdant139 wrote:
I stumbled upon this interesting article -- the researchers have developed a battery that can also serve as a structural member. Thus, the battery may no longer be a dead weight but instead is part of the vehicle. They don't mention RVs, but it seems like this product might fit our needs, if it ever pans out:

Massless or structural battery article

Just another possible development to watch!


Planned Obsolescence..

Full definition HERE

" What Is Planned Obsolescence?

Planned obsolescence describes a strategy of deliberately ensuring that the current version of a given product will become out of date or useless within a known time period. This proactive move guarantees that consumers will seek replacements in the future, thus bolstering demand.

Obsolescence can be achieved through introducing a superior replacement model, or by intentionally designing a product to cease proper function within a specific window. In either case, consumers will theoretically favor the next generational products over the old ones.

Important:
Planned obsolescence differs from perceived obsolescence, which is when designers make frequent stylistic changes to their products, due to the decrease in the perceived desirability of unfashionable items."


Ever hear of the "Centennial light"?

It is the longest continuously burning light bulb ever made.

Installed in 1901.. and is still burning, you can view a live webcam of the bulb.



LIVERMORE'S CENTENNIAL BULB

Was made by Shelby Electric Company.

They marketed it as the longest life bulb but that same strategy was the downfall of the company since the bulb lasted a long time, the customer base would not need to buy again for a long, long time..

So to combat this issue as the story goes, the light bulb manufacturers eventually got together and agreed to limit the life of the bulbs to 1000 hrs which meant the consumer would have to change bulbs every 40 days..

So, the Phoebus cartel was born..

See HERE

" Greater sums of money could be reaped, companies figured, by making bulbs disposable

The business model changed, however, as the light bulb customer base grew more mass-market. Greater sums of money could be reaped, companies figured, by making bulbs disposable and putting replacement costs onto customers. Thus was born the infamous โ€œPhoebus cartelโ€ in the 1920s, wherein representatives from top light bulb manufacturers worldwide, such as Germanyโ€™s Osram, the United Kingdomโ€™s Associated Electrical Industries, and General Electric (GE) in the United States (via a British subsidiary), colluded to artificially reduce bulbsโ€™ lifetimes to 1,000 hours. The details of the scam emerged decades later in governmental and journalistic investigations.

โ€œThis cartel is the most obvious exampleโ€ of planned obsolescenceโ€™s origins โ€œbecause those papers have been found,โ€ says Giles Slade, author of the book Made to Break: Technology and Obsolescence in America, a history of the strategy and its consequences.

The practice cropped up in all sorts of other industries, too. For instance, competition between General Motors and Ford in the fledging 1920s auto market led the former to introduce the now-familiar model year changes in its vehicles. GM had pioneered a way to entice customers to splurge on the latest, greatest car, to satisfy themselves and impress those in their social circles. โ€œIt was a model for all industry,โ€ says Slade.

Although the term โ€œplanned obsolescenceโ€ didnโ€™t enter common usage until the 1950s, the strategy had by then permeated consumerist societies.

Alive and well

In various forms, from subtle to unsubtle, planned obsolescence still very much exists nowadays. From so-called contrived durability, where brittle parts give out, to having repairs cost more than replacement products, to aesthetic upgrades that frame older product versions as less stylish โ€“ goods makers have no shortage of ruses to keep opening customersโ€™ wallets."


Yeah, "disposable cars", I am not into..

jdc1
Explorer II
Explorer II
I'm going to say it's a bad design. Today's battery packs can be salvaged and rebuilt, expanding their lives to....well, we don't know yet.

jdc1
Explorer II
Explorer II
wa8yxm wrote:
I think the industry may well jump on this technology.. here is why.
Batteries have a "life span" none of them last forever. So you now have a built in clock to "Dead car" and if it's part of the frame. you need to get not just a new $7,000 (Pirus) battery but a whole new car.


Why do people that know nothing about a Prius say the things they say? LOL. A Prius battery is less than $2,000.

https://parts.dublintoyota.com/p/Toyota__Prius/BATTERY-ASSEMBLY---HV-SUPPLY/63533084/G951047031.html?partner=googlebase_adwords&kwd=&origin=pla&partnerDevice=c&userLocation=9051682&gclid=Cj0KCQjwo-aCBhC-ARIsAAkNQisf1LS3A25fFI8FLWZFCTuWwTjT06hQTtP1Ap6HUhiGkm75R8aqqGYaAhLHEALw_wcB

StirCrazy
Moderator
Moderator
rlw999 wrote:
I can see why car manufacturers would like this -- it solves the "How much is it going to cost to replace the battery in 10 years" question because when the frame is the battery, the entire car is disposable, you have to buy a new one when the battery ages out.


most cars are build using subframs now days so they would just chage out a subframe. they would probably have the batteries aranged as a rear, mid and front subfram.

what it would allow is for a little less weight overall. if that subfram is the batery they dont have to build a extra fram thats strong enough to hold thoes batteries and a little more interior room.

Steve
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100

QCMan
Nomad III
Nomad III
Wasn't the early Vega designed as a throwaway? It had a no sleeve block that had a very finite lifespan. Sounds like disposable design to me as the motor replacement was more than the car was worth.

2020 Keystone Cougar 22RBS, Ram 1500, two Jacks and plenty of time to roam!
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. A.E.
Good Sam Life Member

mkirsch
Nomad II
Nomad II
Or they can make it modular so that the battery/framework can quickly and easily dropped out and replaced. Front wheel drive cars are designed such that you can drop the entire engine and transaxle out of the vehicle in a couple of hours for easy access/replacement.

When is the last time a major manufacturer designed a "disposable car" where one component failure is intentionally designed to render the car irreparable? Manufactures could have been doing this for decades but they know it won't work because customers won't come back.

Putting 10-ply tires on half ton trucks since aught-four.