GFI Breaker

[DarkSkySeeker]

So I warned the GF not to plug in 5 appliances to the outlets in the kitchen. She did anyway and the plugs stopped working, including the kitchen, living room, and outside plugs. All of the dead plugs are labelled "Ground Fault Protected" but none have resets or test buttons.

Turns out the bedroom and TV outlets are on their own circuit. The bathroom has a GFCI plug that tests, resets, and works independently of this problem.

A lot of the rest of this post is guesswork.

So I opened up my breaker panel and there is a 15amp circuit labelled "GFI" (no "C"). I bought another breaker ($25) and replaced it and the "failed" circuits continued to not work.

About an hour later, mysteriously, they were on.

Here's the real guesswork...

The contacts on the old breaker looked bent. While on there was continuity but I could not tell if power was getting to it through the bent contacts. I can not explain the hour long delay before power was restored. Some sort of reset process/lag?

Your thoughts?

[enblethen]

Gdetrailer: you posted a two two pole tandem breaker in your first post with what some call a twin breaker. These have one connection to the buss work yo provide 2 120 volt circuits. two pole tandem breaker
Your second post with photo is a two pole standard breaker. This connects to two different busses and provides 240 volts.

[Gdetrailer]

enblethen wrote:
Gdetrailer:
The OP says he bought a single pole breaker not a two pole tandem.

No where did I mention or post "two pole tandem" which would have both breaker handles tied together and would be for 240V usage like this pix..



and in reality a double pole breaker is not referred to a "tandem" because the handles are tied together and the breaker is twice the size of a standard 1" breaker to catch both L1 and L2

OP posted this pix..

DarkSkySeeker wrote:
All of the breakers are the same manufacturer, they just have different limits.

All of the breakers in that pix are single pole tandem and I suspect the OP had to buy a single pole tandem in order to replace the old breaker.

Most breaker panels in RVs will be full and to maximize the amount of circuits they will use single pole tandems in the pix the OP provided and the examples I have shown other than the double pole 240V breaker in this post..

[wopachop]

If your breaker has 120v and the neutral is tight then you try to guess which outlet would be first down the line. Start yanking off covers and look for loose wires. Signs of hot wires burning plastic.

The little device you plug into an outlet is cheap and quick to determine if you have a loose neutral or ground. Or if the previous tech wired stuff wrong.

[wopachop]

DarkSkySeeker wrote:
About an hour later, mysteriously, they were on.

Here's the real guesswork...

The contacts on the old breaker looked bent. While on there was continuity but I could not tell if power was getting to it through the bent contacts.

The mysteriously turning on an hour later sounds like a loose wire connection. I would kill power to the entire trailer, and then tighten every single wire in your panel.

You just installed a new breaker. But you were not able to test the old breaker, or the new breaker? Be careful but just flip the breaker on and probe the screw and the neutral bus bar. If you see 120v, the breaker is working.

While i think its a loose wire you could check where your fridge plugs in. That might be an outlet that you have not checked for a gfci yet. But.....its almost silly to consider the GFCI to be the issue since power resumed on its own.

I would first find the neutral that is used for the new breaker you installed.

[enblethen]

Gdetrailer:
The OP says he bought a single pole breaker not a two pole tandem.

[Gdetrailer]

BB_TX wrote:

Dusty R wrote:
GFI = Ground Fault Interrupter Is what they were called when they first came out/were required.
GFCI = Ground Fault Current is what they are now called, there maybe a slight difference.
A GFCI receptacle is most often the first receptacle on a circuit then all the other receptacle down the line are also GFCI protected, if properly wired.

Actually GFCI means ground fault circuit interrupter. They do not trip on over current. They trip if there is a ground fault (basically an abnormal leak of current to ground) in that circuit, as little as 5 ma.

There are however combination breaker and GFCI that goes inside ones breaker panel..



Those breakers are insanely pricey at $75 each and you can tell it is not a standard breaker as it has a White Neutral pigtail wire that must be connected to the Neutral Buss bar..

As far as I am aware, GFCI breakers are not available in Duplex or Twin format..

As far as separate GFCIs wiring goes, not all outlets on that circuit may be wired through a GFCI. GFCI can be inserted anywhere in the circuit depending on what outlets need to be protected..

So, you can find some outlets that may be upstream (before the GFCI) and not GFCI protected if they are not in a wet location and any outlets downstream (after GFCI)of the GFCI will be GFCI protected as long as they were connected to the load side of the GFCI..

[Dusty_R]

BB_TX wrote:

Dusty R wrote:
GFI = Ground Fault Interrupter Is what they were called when they first came out/were required.
GFCI = Ground Fault Current is what they are now called, there maybe a slight difference.
A GFCI receptacle is most often the first receptacle on a circuit then all the other receptacle down the line are also GFCI protected, if properly wired.

Actually GFCI means ground fault circuit interrupter. They do not trip on over current. They trip if there is a ground fault (basically an abnormal leak of current to ground) in that circuit, as little as 5 ma.

Thanks for correcting my mistake, and adding how they work. That 5 ma. is so small that it can travel through you trip the power and you will not feel it.

[BB_TX]

Dusty R wrote:
GFI = Ground Fault Interrupter Is what they were called when they first came out/were required.
GFCI = Ground Fault Current is what they are now called, there maybe a slight difference.
A GFCI receptacle is most often the first receptacle on a circuit then all the other receptacle down the line are also GFCI protected, if properly wired.

Actually GFCI means ground fault circuit interrupter. They do not trip on over current. They trip if there is a ground fault (basically an abnormal leak of current to ground) in that circuit, as little as 5 ma.

[Gdetrailer]

enblethen wrote:
Double check the galley area for another GFCI receptacle
If you paid $25 for a single pole breaker, you got ripped off! There is nothing special about RV breakers!

Those are Eaton BD1515 Duplex or "twin" breakers, and are two breakers built into one full size housing.



Allows one to add more circuits to the breaker box than single full size breakers would have allowed. Works in boxes not designed for half size breakers.

They are more expensive than if you used a single full size breaker and $25 is not out of line..

Same one is selling for $22.63 at Amazon HERE, add in taxes and possibly shipping it would be right around $25..

Nothing special about that breaker, it is not a GFCI breaker and somewhere down the wiring line there is most likely a GFCI since the panel label mentions it..

[Dusty_R]

GFI = Ground Fault Interrupter Is what they were called when they first came out/were required.
GFCI = Ground Fault Current is what they are now called, there maybe a slight difference.
A GFCI receptacle is most often the first receptacle on a circuit then all the other receptacle down the line are also GFCI protected, if properly wired.

[Yosemite_Sam1]

Permanent solution, change gF! LOL

Mine keeps on turning on appliances and hair dryer at the same time.

And too many USBs and octopus connections to the cigarette that it blew the fuse on our trailer puller.

Too bad I married her and divorce is more expensive.

[enblethen]

Double check the galley area for another GFCI receptacle
If you paid $25 for a single pole breaker, you got ripped off! There is nothing special about RV breakers!

[DarkSkySeeker]

Roger10378 wrote:
5 appliances on a circuit will not trip the GFCI they will trip the breaker if the load is too much. The breaker labeled GFI is supplying the GFCI. Did you check the outside outlet for GFCI? In many cases that one supplies some of the other circuits.

Thanks for the response. The GFCI in the bathroom does not go off when the circuit labelled GFI is off.

She had an ice maker, a small dorm sized freezer and a coffee pot all on at the same time.

[Roger10378]

5 appliances on a circuit will not trip the GFCI they will trip the breaker if the load is too much. The breaker labeled GFI is supplying the GFCI. Did you check the outside outlet for GFCI? In many cases that one supplies some of the other circuits.

[DarkSkySeeker]

All of the breakers are the same manufacturer, they just have different limits.