Installing a new capacitor in my Coleman A/C

[whs9841]

I'm installing a new start capacitor in my Coleman A/C (model 8335D8764). The capacitor is the Supco SPP6, which seems like a pretty popular option. I went up on the roof of my 5'er yesterday and took a picture of the existing capacitors. It is included below. My question is which capacitor will the SPP6 replace? I'm assuming it is the small one on the right, but I just want to make sure before I drive out to the storage lot for the install. Can anyone confirm?

Thanks.

[Chris_Bryant]

j-d wrote:
For Doug, Yes, our Jayco Class C, with APU (you must've been in the Air Force!) has the RVP model with Start Relay.
For Chris, Your lookup indicate that Jayco had spec'd the Start Cap/Relay setup, which performs better than the PTCR type, and obviously better than no Start Kit at all.

OP, From another thread (Thanks, Jose!) here's a picture of an RVP/Coleman/Mach with Start Relay and Start Capacitor

Left to Right are Compressor Run Cap, Fan Run Cap, and Compressor Start Cap. Above Compressor Start Cap is the Start Relay.
SPP6E replaces Compressor Start Cap and Start Relay.
Not shown, but in place of Relay, is PTCR. SPP6 replaces Compressor Start Cap and PTCR.

The start relay is the best- much better than the PTCR or E series Supco. The only drawback is cost.

[j-d]

For Doug, Yes, our Jayco Class C, with APU (you must've been in the Air Force!) has the RVP model with Start Relay.
For Chris, Your lookup indicate that Jayco had spec'd the Start Cap/Relay setup, which performs better than the PTCR type, and obviously better than no Start Kit at all.

OP, From another thread (Thanks, Jose!) here's a picture of an RVP/Coleman/Mach with Start Relay and Start Capacitor

Left to Right are Compressor Run Cap, Fan Run Cap, and Compressor Start Cap. Above Compressor Start Cap is the Start Relay.
SPP6E replaces Compressor Start Cap and Start Relay.
Not shown, but in place of Relay, is PTCR. SPP6 replaces Compressor Start Cap and PTCR.

[Chris_Bryant]

Bluegrass Picker wrote:
...
I am very interested in installing a Supco SPP6 / SPP6E capacitor mod for easier starting of the AC. I currently have a Honda EU2000i (not the companion) and if at all possible I'd like to have the Honda run the AC with no other loads running. If not possible, then I'd still like to install the Supco if there could be a benefit at a later date when I'm able to acquire another EU2000i.
<...>
The question is, what Supco unit would I install in this unit, the SPP6 or the SPP6E, and would I remove the existing PTCR/Capacitor start kit? If so, how do I identify those existing components that will be replaced?

The SPP6 is functionally identical to what you have already*, so it would give you no advantages. The SPP6E is different, and might allow the unit to start- in ideal conditions- on the 2000. The EU2000 will always be very marginal, however, and it will always be running right at it's max output (remember, it's only a 1600 watt generator at sea level to begin with).

* The SPP6 is probably higher quality, and it is not unusual for the PTCR devices they used to use to burn up.

[Bluegrass_Picke]

Hi,

I have been reading this thread (and others) with great interest and I have a few related questions and hopefully not too much redundancy. I thought I'd ask here as opposed to starting a new thread since there is much related information already here. I would appreciate it if the persons here could clear up some confusion for me.

I have a 2009 Jayco TT with a Coleman 13500 AC model 8333D8764.

I am very interested in installing a Supco SPP6 / SPP6E capacitor mod for easier starting of the AC. I currently have a Honda EU2000i (not the companion) and if at all possible I'd like to have the Honda run the AC with no other loads running. If not possible, then I'd still like to install the Supco if there could be a benefit at a later date when I'm able to acquire another EU2000i.

From reading past threads it appears that my AC has a hard start kit already installed:

8 (8000 series)
3 (standard profile)
3 (non-exhaust model)
3 (13,500 btu)
d (model revision number)
8 (Tecumseh compressor)
7 (PTCR/Capacitor start kit)
6 (Arctic white)
4 (It was shipped on a skid, does have a logo)

The question is, what Supco unit would I install in this unit, the SPP6 or the SPP6E, and would I remove the existing PTCR/Capacitor start kit? If so, how do I identify those existing components that will be replaced?

Would this mod actually be worth doing on my AC unit? What are my chances of running the AC on one EU2000i?

Thanks to everyone for the information already posted here and thanks in advance for any help and advice that anyone can give.

Bluegrass Picker

[bob213]

I'm sorry I missed the fact that you have a Coleman AC. Both of my AC units were Dometic. I'm glad I was corrected before you did anything to your unit. My statement concerning the 6 vs the 6E comes from this email (which I guess has been proven incorrect). I will leave the tech questions to those that know in the future.
1. Jim Berry (July 13th, 2011 at 7:22 am)
If you are adding a hardstart to your RV A/C unit, use the SPP6 (no E). The SPP6E is not designed for 120VAC applications, The “E” series is also an instant restart unit, this does not allow the generator sufficient time to rampup to full power. The SPP6 has the preferred PTC relay and allows a longer ramp up time. The SPP6 is rated for 120VAC usage.
Remember for every thousand feet above sea level you generator drops 3% of output. On hotter days the A/C drops in efficiency as well. Check with your A/C manufacturer on the correct generator size for your unit. As far as I know there is not a manufacturer that will reccomend a 2000 watt generator to run a 13,500 BTU A/C unit.
If you have any questions about the SPP6 or any other Supco part, please contact us at 1-800-333-9125 ext. 261 our Tech Support will be glad to assist you.
Thanks,
Jim Berry
Director Product Management
Sealed Unit Parts Co., Inc.

[dougrainer]

whs9841 wrote:
Doug, thanks for the info regarding the model number....that's good information.

I went back and found all of the documentation I received from my dealer. The model number on my documentation ends with 8564, which would indicate I don't have a hard start capacitor. I found the model number I provided in the original post on the applicances list on the inside of a cabinet door in the 5'er. I'm guessing the model listed on the appliances list in the trailer is incorrect, and the documentation that came with my 5'er is correct. (although you would think the model listed in the cabinet door of the trailer would be more accurate).

I was surprised you had a Jayco Trailer with THAT model number. They usually ONLY install RVP AC units with OEM Hard Start capacitors on Motorhomes, since most motorhomes have a APU. Since starting a Roof AC puts more load/strain on an APU, RVP offers OEM motorhome makers the option of the Hard Start kit. NO, you DO NOT have the Hard Start capacitor. IMO, ALL roof top AC units should have a Hard Start capacitor. As you read here, Most knowledgeable RV'ers install the Hard start kit regardless. It is cheap to do if you do the work yourself. Doug

[j-d]

Glad that model number thing is settled. I looked up the Wiring Diagram and the Parts List on the AirExcel/RVP/Coleman site. The Parts List showed the Start Kit but the Wiring Diagram showed both the PTCR version and the Relay version of the Start Kit as Optional. If there was a Start Kit and it was not in the picture you posted, where would it've been? And if there was a Start Kit (either PTCR or Relay) the compressor run cap would have two red and two yellow wires on it (according to the wiring diagram) not just one red and one yellow in your photo.
We have an onboard ONAN 4KW genset. I see you run two EU's. I don't know if the parallel gives you essentially a 4000. Nor do I know what the surge tolerance is. So although I know those Hondas have a great reputation, including running A/C, I think the thing to do would be get the "E" series hard start.

[whs9841]

Doug, thanks for the info regarding the model number....that's good information.

I went back and found all of the documentation I received from my dealer. The model number on my documentation ends with 8564, which would indicate I don't have a hard start capacitor. I found the model number I provided in the original post on the applicances list on the inside of a cabinet door in the 5'er. I'm guessing the model listed on the appliances list in the trailer is incorrect, and the documentation that came with my 5'er is correct. (although you would think the model listed in the cabinet door of the trailer would be more accurate).

[j-d]

whs9841 wrote:

BTW, I'm assuming the SPP6E will hook up to the leads on the compressor run capacitor, just like the SPP6.

That is correct.

[whs9841]

Chris,

That makes sense. If I just go with the SPP6, it sounds like it could potentially help, but if the generators take too long to get the compressor up to full speed then the SPP6 may cycle out of the circuit before the compressor gets fully running. The SPP6E will stay in circuit until the compressor is running approx. 75% of normal speed. I don't think we'll have an issue with cycling the compressor off and right back on. I'll make sure my wife knows to give it a minute or so between the a/c turning off and then forcing it to turn back on.

BTW, I'm assuming the SPP6E will hook up to the leads on the compressor run capacitor, just like the SPP6.

Thanks again.

Trey

[Chris_Bryant]

whs9841 wrote:
Chris, a few questions about your response:

1. If I piggyback the SPP6 on the larger capacitor, do I just connect the wires from the SPP6 to the two different posts on the larger capacitor?

Yes- exactly.

2. Is there a way to wire the SPP6 as a compressor start capacitor for this a/c?

That's what it will be doing- added to the compressor run capacitor.

3. How would the SPP6E benefit me more in this scenario? How would it be hooked up to the A/C with the existing capacitors?

The difference between the E sries and standard series is that the E series uses a speed sensing relay to take the start capacitor out of the circuit, the standard uses a PTCR, which simply gets hot and stops conducting, taking the capacitor out of the circuit. For normal use this works well, and is cheap. However, when running on a generator, the generator will usually bog down for a second, and because the PTCR is basically time based, it takes the start capacitor out of the circuit before the compressor is running at speed. The E series keeps it in the circuit until the compressor is running at ~75% speed.
Supco doesn't recommend the E series because if you cycle the compressor off and right back on, the capacitor is in the circuit for too long a time, because the compressor cannot start against the high pressure. This is harder on the compressor.

If you don't run on a generator, the E gives no advantage, but it can make the difference between starting and not when running on a marginal genset.

You want a single start kit- more is not better.

FWIW, there are actually better kits out there, though they are a bit more complicated to install. They use 3 wires and a true potential relay. Dometic makes a factory start kit specifically for the Penguin and Onan 2.8.

[dougrainer]

Your model RVP ALREADY has a hard start capacitor for the compressor. It came from RVP with OEM Hard Start capacitor.
The 2ndnumber after the LETTER in the model number tells you that.

If 5 or 6, NO hard start cap
If 7-8-9, it HAS the hard start capacitor.
8335D8764 The "7" tells that you have the OEM hard Start Capacitor.

Doug

[whs9841]

I didn't see j-d's response before my previous message. Now I'm kicking myself...I originally ordered the SPP6E, but saw numerous posts stating the 6E is not recommended for RV a/c usage, and the SPP6 is what Supco recommends.

Since the SPP6 capacitor should be delivered later today or tomorrow, would I get any extra benefit to piggyback the SPP6 capacitor to the compressor run capacitor, and then when I get the SPP6E I can also add it to the compressor run capacitor and it will act as a start relay/start cap? That may be over-doing it a bit, but just wondering if this configuration would provide any extra benefit.

Thanks,

Trey

[whs9841]

Chris, a few questions about your response:

1. If I piggyback the SPP6 on the larger capacitor, do I just connect the wires from the SPP6 to the two different posts on the larger capacitor?
2. Is there a way to wire the SPP6 as a compressor start capacitor for this a/c?
3. How would the SPP6E benefit me more in this scenario? How would it be hooked up to the A/C with the existing capacitors?

Thanks,

Trey