Tristar Remote Meter or is my TriMetric Enough?

[alliemac9]

Installed my solar system and took it on a shakedown trip. Things went well - had plenty of power. As a result, I really have no idea how much power the panels were putting out in various situations. I have the TriStar PWM 60A controller and a TriMetric. We could see when we put a load on the system that the solar would kick in to compensate and keep the batteries full. Then when the load went down the input (Ah)would go back down.

My question is whether I would understand more if I bought the TriStar remote meter? I guess it doesn't really matter how much available juice there is coming from the roof if it is enough to keep things full, but this trip was pretty light on the electric usage and I anticipate more usage on future trips. Does the remote meter provide any info on the power generated by the panels separate from the power being fed into the batteries?

[BFL13]

12thgenusa wrote:
Using the word "net" implied you might be one of those who believe the battery is being charged by solar and simultaneously being discharged by loads.

I was one of them until I got straightened out 🙂 However, it is convenient to pretend the Trimetric is showing net of in and out so I still do it that way.

eg, when seeing how many amps the converter can do and your batts are full, you can run a big load on the inverter so the Tri shows - 60a. Then turn on the converter and the Tri now shows -30a. That shows the converter is doing 30a.

It is the same across zero too. Load on, Tri says -20a. Turn on converter, Tri says + 10. Converter is doing 30a.

Same with turning solar on and off for what it looks like on the Tri, even though the explanation is not like that. It works for figuring out what is doing what. Like painting a compass needle blue on one end and red on the other end. Never mind about Gauss, just remember opposites attract and likes repel. Using Net with the Tri is easier to use, at least for my tiny mind.

[Redsky]

Almot has it right. You have all the information you need and more information is not going to enable you to do anything differently. The charge controller only feeds a low battery. When the load drops so does the rate of discharge of the battery bank and the controller senses this and adjusts the charge voltage down to compensate.

With your RV do you care about how many ounces of fuel per minute your engine burns or if it enough to know the current fuel level in the tank? I know that if my batteries in the morning are above 50% DOD and by nightfall they are at 100% that all is OK. No need to over think this.

[12thgenusa]

Using the word "net" implied you might be one of those who believe the battery is being charged by solar and simultaneously being discharged by loads.

[Almot]

12thgenusa wrote:

Perhaps if you:
1) moved the controller out of the closet
2) installed a Trimetric
3) you would see and understand what you've been missing and join the "dark" side 🙂

Nah... Have enough vices already 🙂

12thgenusa wrote:
I'm curious as to what you mean by "net current from battery"?

Net current: + or -. The one that you see on Trimetric, but don't see on controller. If it's positive, then battery is charging. If it's negative, it's discharging, and then it shouldn't be too high for a given bank size. Cells don't like it too high. When charging, they also don't like it too high (except for Lifeline batteries where they like it VERY high), though this is less likely to happen when charging from solar.

[12thgenusa]

Almot wrote:
You already know max current that you loads may draw. As long as this doesn't result in too high net current from battery, these data are of no consequence. It only shows that your loads are working.

I'm curious as to what you mean by "net current from battery"?

[12thgenusa]

Almot wrote:
I purposely installed my MPPT 30 with its nice 4-line display in the hatch of the front under-bed storage on the left side of trailer, where I rarely go, because there is NO need to look at it every day. It's just doing its work - like somebody said "so well that it's boring".

Perhaps if you:
1) moved the controller out of the closet
2) installed a Trimetric
3) you would see and understand what you've been missing and join the "dark" side 🙂

[Almot]

Leaving aside things that we do just because we "want" or "can", the OP questions were: 1) whether he would understand more with remote meter, and 2) "Does the remote meter provide any info on the power generated by the panels separate from the power being fed into the batteries".

As I can see it, the answer is: 1) No, he would get more data but would not "understand more" - not about anything important for system functioning; and 2) Yes, the meter would provide such an info, but this info would be of little, if any, use.

Though this 2nd question, when I look at it, falls into category of things that we do only because we want. In other words, just for fun of it. My apologies that I didn't notice this from the beginning.

Edit - PS: forgot one useful aspect of controller display. When solar side suddenly stops working for no obvious reason. Let's say, a giant prehistorical bird would fly over and shi.t over entire panel while you are away or sleeping. You look at the controller - what the heck - the sun is high but there is no panel voltage, no nothing. Then you realize - aha, must be that bird again, so you climb the ladder with a mop and give panel a good cleaning 🙂

[KJINTF]

Hi Almot

A lot of what folks do is simply because we CAN and or want to for me it's not much more complex than that

I understand the MPPT 60 has an Ethernet interface and the PWM does not offer such a direct interface. If the OP desires to have a wireless router interface it's a VERY simple thing to interface to the RS232 serial data connection with a Serial to Wifi adapter

I will stick with the term "used"

As said earlier everyone has different wants desires and needs. I try to respect everyone's opinions and hope others try to respect mine

[Almot]

KJINTF wrote:
The ethernet "N" Wireless router interfaced to the MPPT 60 controller additionally reduces the need for wires.

The OP won't have this option because he doesn't have MPPT 60.

KJINTF wrote:
I use heavy loads during the day the Trimetric data is almost meaningless for daytime loads. The TS-RM2 display gets used as much or more than the Trimetric for this very reason

Er... "gets looked at", rather than "gets used"... Meaning, act not aimed at accomplishing anything useful :)... You already know max current that you loads may draw. As long as this doesn't result in too high net current from battery, these data are of no consequence. It only shows that your loads are working.

12thgenusa wrote:
Is a meter necessary for a properly functioning system? No.

The case of the OP, wasn't it 🙂 ...

[KJINTF]

Lots of opinions as we hope/expect here at RV.net

I for one always mount the solar controller out of sight, very close to the battery. No heavy wires and no inside space taken up by the controller. Nice to have a simple completely hidden cat5 cable and a useful display over the entry door. The ethernet "N" Wireless router interfaced to the MPPT 60 controller additionally reduces the need for wires.

As 12thgenusa, I use heavy loads during the day the Trimetric data is almost meaningless for daytime loads. The TS-RM2 display gets used as much or more than the Trimetric for this very reason

Enjoy your new display

Just a thought
The MS meter bus system is full of data
Have you looked at the MS "Relay Driver"?
Wired mine for proactive hi/low Voltage/Temperature warnings and alarms, it drives LED's and Sonalerts
If things happen it will get your attention

[Almot]

alliemac9 wrote:
on cloudy evenings, the solar was still keeping up with us. So, if we're not anticipating significant electrical loads on a trip, we may opt to park in partial shade or something. I did put a lot of watts on the roof, so I anticipate we have lots of power - guess I'm just curious to see it! 🙂

Be careful, checking controller display can become an addiction. Some things (many!) you just don't need.

You were able to tell - with Trimetric and LED indicators on TS 60 - that solar was keeping up with your needs. What else could you wish for...

Yes, you will get additional data with controller display - not important data. With Trimetric you can see the power (amps, whatever) generated by solar when only charging, no loads running. I said this before - you CAN see this power on Trimetric. But not always. With controller display you will also see this power when battery is full. No big deal.

You will also see funny numbers of "peak power" in the daily log, ex. 700W if you array is close to that size, so you'll be able to brag about this before your friends, but this is all that this data is good for.

I purposely installed my MPPT 30 with its nice 4-line display in the hatch of the front under-bed storage on the left side of trailer, where I rarely go, because there is NO need to look at it every day. It's just doing its work - like somebody said "so well that it's boring".

[alliemac9]

I should probably admit...we're curious enough that the "hobby" aspect is probably an apt description. It's pretty interesting to watch and I'm wondering if getting a little more data would allow us to make decisions about where we park, etc.

For instance, we were surprised that on cloudy evenings, the solar was still keeping up with us. So, if we're not anticipating significant electrical loads on a trip, we may opt to park in partial shade or something. I did put a lot of watts on the roof, so I anticipate we have lots of power - guess I'm just curious to see it! 🙂

[12thgenusa]

Almot wrote:
... which only happens at some moments, when solar amps are equal to load demand.

Not true. It happens all the time. Every time a load is energized while the panels are producing in fact. With a meter you would see this. Maybe some folks don't use any power during the day. I sure do.

Is a meter necessary for a properly functioning system? No. One thing it would do is correct the misunderstanding of how the system works that many people seem to have.

BTW, solar amps are always equal to demand unless demand is greater than what solar can produce as battery charging is also just another load.

[12thgenusa]

It doesn't have anything to do with where the inverter is connected. It's just another 12-volt load. Whether the controller output, inverter and 12-volt distribution (alternator and converter for that matter) are connected directly to the batteries or to a bus matters not. They are all in parallel. The nature of the solar output is that it will attempt to satisfy the load before the battery will. This is because the controller voltage is higher than battery voltage.

When you get your meter installed and with the Trimetric can see panel output, controller output, amps in/out of batteries and load demand, it will all be obvious.