What is Normal Brake Wear?

[CarnationSailor]

I have a 2015 Crossroads Rushmore Springfield 5th-wheel. (36-foot with dual axles.) I had the wheel bearings repacked, brake wear checked, brakes adjusted, and tires rotated at 7,500 miles (at Les Schwab). I was told that the brakes were in good shape, but should have them checked every time I have the wheel bearings repacked.

At 15,000 miles, I took the trailer back to Les Schwab. (Note: It was my intention to have the bearings repacked every 6,000 miles as recommended by Crossroads; however, I postponed the service both times due to being on the road and not wanting to trust a service center far from home.)

This time i was told that the brakes shoes were beyond worn out and had scored and caused "hot spots" on all four drums. I needed new electric brake assemblies which included new shoes and new magnets, new drums, and new bearings and seals. Had the condition of the shoes been noticed sooner, I would have been looking at around $1100 for new brakes. Instead, it cost me around $2400.

Les Schwab came up with various ideas as to what could have caused the damage (stuck shoe, stuck magnet, etc.), but all made sense for only one or two wheels and made no sense for all four wheels.

Obviously, I will have the brakes checked more often in the future, but I do have some questions:

Is it normal for brakes to wear this quickly? If not, what could have caused premature wear? (Note: I would have expected the wear to be less than average as I always use the exhaust brake going down grades and rarely have to use the brakes.)

How often do others check for brake wear?

Thanks

[fj12ryder]

They may have been referring to replacing both races of the bearing at the same time, not just the one on the axle or the one in the hub. You do want to replace both races at the same time.

Tapered roller bearings, should be replaced as a set: inner race, outer race, and roller assembly. Whether you choose to replace the drum at the same time is totally dependent on you.

[CarnationSailor]

fj12ryder wrote:

CarnationSailor wrote:
myredracer:

LS said it was prudent to replace the bearings with the hubs because the old bearings and the old hubs would have had mating wear grooves, and that the new hub would have none; hence, the old bearings wouldn't fit well with a non-grooved hub. Anybody know if this is true?

Well, if they're trying to get that past you it would make you wonder how much other stuff they also made up. Total BS.

Wheel bearings have an outer and an inner race, the rollers turn against those surfaces. The hub only holds the outer race in place.

I may be remembering their explanation incorrectly because I have found on the web some advise that it may be safest to replace both the hubs and the bearings together. Not sure exactly what LS said, but it did make sense to me at the time.

[fj12ryder]

CarnationSailor wrote:
myredracer:

LS said it was prudent to replace the bearings with the hubs because the old bearings and the old hubs would have had mating wear grooves, and that the new hub would have none; hence, the old bearings wouldn't fit well with a non-grooved hub. Anybody know if this is true?

Well, if they're trying to get that past you it would make you wonder how much other stuff they also made up. Total BS.

Wheel bearings have an outer and an inner race, the rollers turn against those surfaces. The hub only holds the outer race in place.

[CarnationSailor]

myredracer:

LS said it was prudent to replace the bearings with the hubs because the old bearings and the old hubs would have had mating wear grooves, and that the new hub would have none; hence, the old bearings wouldn't fit well with a non-grooved hub. Anybody know if this is true?

[myredracer]

I know that there are folks that are much more knowledgeable here on brake controllers than me and someone should be along before long.

If you have a somewhat heavier trailer like yours, I have to wonder if the brakes can't generate enough force to lock the wheels up and are creating more friction and heat to slow the truck and trailer down? Or if it's an integral OEM b/c you'd be better off with an aftermarket one like Prodigy? Are the brakes really at max. clamping force at a setting of 10 and perhaps there's a wiring related issue? Maybe some other reason?

I missed the part about the bearings, but did they note any issues with them or did they just go ahead and replace them regardless? I replaced our (cheap) Chinese bearings after just 2 seasons with new Timkens because one bearing was running warmer than it should have been. The dealer had the drums off at one point though (per our request) and they over-tightened the nuts. Am now leary of anyone touching our brakes or bearings that I don't know.

Am interested in hearing if there is an answer to this problem.

[CarnationSailor]

myredracer wrote:
... It does sound like the b/c is set too high and over-braking that you wouldn't notice.... :R

myredracer:

Thanks for your post.

If the b/c is set too high, shouldn't I be able to lockup the wheels? (I've never been able to do that even at the highest setting of 10.)

If the b/c is set too high, shouldn't I feel the trailer holding back the truck when I brake? Instead, the truck brakes and the trailer brakes seem to be working together to stop the rig which I thought was supposed to be ideal.

Also, as I said in my original post, I did have the bearings replaced too as this was recommended by LS anytime new hubs are installed.

[myredracer]

If it were me, I would have gone to a frame & axle shop that does brakes on a routine basis, unless you were away on a trip and had no choice. Did you by any chance keep the old shoes and drums? It would be interesting to take them to a frame & axle shop or brake shop for an opinion. It would also be interesting to measure the remaining material thickness on the shoes. It does sound like the b/c is set too high and over-braking that you wouldn't notice.

Hot spots on all 4 brake drums would be an indication of overheating the brakes from excessive use/application and/or uneven wear on the shoes for some reason. I would think that's an important clue (if it was as bad as LS said).

What size of brakes are on it? Dexter has up to 15,000 lb rating per pair for 12-1/4" x 5" electric brake assemblies without having to go with discs. Don't know if it requires a change-out of rims or axles. I would have gone for larger rated assemblies instead of replacing with the same. I also would have done a bearing inspection & repack at the same time, esp. with something abnormal like that going on with the brakes.

We have 5200 lb axles and 12" brakes when 3500lb/10" is stock. Have towed over 20K miles up & down the west coast on mountain roads, very twisty roads and plenty of stop/start in city traffic without ever having to worry about brake performance or wear. Having larger brakes has been an excellent upgrade and would do it again in a heartbeat. Can't even tell the TT is "back there". :R

[CarnationSailor]

marininn wrote:
Way over priced. Yes, find a new dealer. Find a mechanic not associated with an RV place or RV anything.
Any low level mechanic should be able to do trailer brakes, they are way simple.

Brakes should last a long time. It all depends how much power you are using on them, sound like you said you use a small amount of power.
you can let vehicle do most of the braking, or split it where the trailer brakes just enough to stop its own weight, or let trailer do most of the braking. At some point the trailer wheels will lock up when braking if they are giving too much power.

Ideal is to let trailer stop its own weight, so stopping the vehicle feels the same with or without the trailer. Many drivers set the brakes so the trailer does some of the braking for itself, but not all. This will make trailer brakes last longer.

On the freeway or high speeds set the trailer to brake enough to stop its weight or more since braking will likely be emergency/panic. Around town at lower speeds reduce the trailer brake power. When maneuvering in the campground or parking area you can turn the brakes off.

When I got the trailer, I went thru the procedure to set the brake controller. (Set controller to point where trailer brakes lockup when going 25.) There was no setting where I could lockup the brakes so I set the controller at it's maximum setting of 10. I've always left it at 10 and the braking has been good - that is, the truck and trailer brake as a unit.

Thanks for all the various settings based on type of road, but that is way more adjusting than I want to do.

[ktmrfs]

I've found that Les Schwab service for other than tires can be very hit and miss.

And I no longer use them for tires either, prices are out of line along with warranty.

Now for brake pad wear. Myself and several others have between 30K and 100K miles on various trailers. None of us have had the brake shoes worn out yet. One neighbor has put over 100K miles on two cargo haulers weighing in at close to 12K lbs and neither had the shoes worn to replacement.

So.....IMHO either you have a atypical problem needing resolution, or someone trying to sell you service you don't need.

[marininn]

Way over priced. Yes, find a new dealer. Find a mechanic not associated with an RV place or RV anything.
Any low level mechanic should be able to do trailer brakes, they are way simple.

Brakes should last a long time. It all depends how much power you are using on them, sound like you said you use a small amount of power.
you can let vehicle do most of the braking, or split it where the trailer brakes just enough to stop its own weight, or let trailer do most of the braking. At some point the trailer wheels will lock up when braking if they are giving too much power.

Ideal is to let trailer stop its own weight, so stopping the vehicle feels the same with or without the trailer. Many drivers set the brakes so the trailer does some of the braking for itself, but not all. This will make trailer brakes last longer.

On the freeway or high speeds set the trailer to brake enough to stop its weight or more since braking will likely be emergency/panic. Around town at lower speeds reduce the trailer brake power. When maneuvering in the campground or parking area you can turn the brakes off.

[fj12ryder]

In Missouri you can't get your tags without a current inspection approval certificate. We don't have trailer inspection, just cars/trucks and motorcycles, but no approved inspection certificate, no plate.

[Ralph_Cramden]

fj12ryder wrote:
Man, that would stink having some $10/hour grunt pulling wheels, checking brakes, and then putting it all back together correctly, getting the brake drag correct, and the bearing preload set right.

We have auto inspections in Missouri, but thankfully no non-commercial trailer inspections.

Just out of curiosity, what do they charge for an inspection?

You have to take it to a mechanic who has a trailer endorsement on his state inspection license. That usually means an RV dealer or utility trailer dealer. Around here that will set you back about $65. For that they pull a wheel on each side to look at the brakes, look at the lights, and pull the breakaway pin.

As a comparison I get my truck inspected for $26 at the GMC dealer.

I now refuse to get the PA trailer inspection and have not had one done for 4 years. 4 years x $65 = $260. The citation, should you get cited which has about as much chance of happening as the sky falling, for not having it is $105. They can pound salt.

Recently at an RV dealer I watched a tech doing an inspection outside on the gravel lot. He dropped the outer bearing into the dirt when he popped the drum off, looked at the lining and slid the drum back on, then gave the bearing a quick wipe with his dirty rag and put it all back together.

[Lynnmor]

fj12ryder wrote:


Just out of curiosity, what do they charge for an inspection?

In PA, they charge about $39 for safety inspection and about the same for the scam emissions inspection. I say scam because they simply plug into the computer and read the codes. Well if there were any emissions related codes the check engine light would be on. $39 to tell me the light is off! Even worse, I have two vehicles that are exempt because of the low mileage since the last inspection and guess what? $39 for the exempt sticker!

[Lynnmor]

CarnationSailor wrote:


How many miles should I expect to get on a set of brakes given that they are lightly used?

And, how often do most people check for brake wear?

Brakes will last a long time, wild guess is 30,000 miles. But one guys "lightly used" may be way different for the next. I see many that have brake controllers turned way up because they like to feel serious braking from the trailer. Personally, I have way more problems with the magnets grooving the armatures and causing repair/replacement way before the brake shoes are worn.

The comment about PA state inspection is one of my major pains with dimwits messing with my things. Usually I leave with a vehicle less safe than when I pulled in. I need to personally inspect all brakes each year after they were monkeyed with.