2023 Power Stroke vs 2023 Ram Cummins Towing Challenge

[FishOnOne]

Ford: Better towing acceleration, better performance, better fuel economy, less squat

Ram: Better exhaust brake, good ride quality.

Looks like the 6 speed vs 10 speed discussion has been exposed in this video.

Enjoy...

Link

This evaluation was performed by a Ram owner.

[4x4ord]

Me Again wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
I think the secrete to better grade braking is electric axles on the trailers. Charge the batteries on the way down and help pull
on the way up.

I do not think many owners realize that Fords going down a hill on cruise control or ACC that the truck applies the service brakes including the trailer brakes. This could lead to overheating the trailer brakes without the driver realizing it. I am not sure if the others GM and RAM are the same now. I sure miss my 2015 RAM's exhaust brake going down passes and hills(always had nice cool service brakes) on my yearly commute to AZ and back to Wa.

It seems to me that the computer calculates brake temperature using speed and brake line pressure and will give a warning before the brakes get hot. Although I don't like to rely on the computer to apply my brakes without knowing what is going on I think it does function in a fairly responsible manner. When the brakes are applied the transmission downshifts to bring the engine revs fairly high .... if another brake application is necessary it will downshift further. When it does apply the brakes, it stabs the brakes slowing the truck down a bit and then releases them (it does not constantly apply brake pressure). If the auto EB function is used instead of cruise control, it downshifts fairly aggressively and then allows the engine to rev to the red line to make maximum use of the EB before applying wheel brakes.

[4x4ord]

I don't travel over very many highways with long steep down hill grades other than the Kootenay pass in BC. It is long .... 19 miles long. The average grade over that 19 miles is just under 4% but there are very short sections that hit over 13%. Towards the top of the pass is a 2.5 mile section that averages 7.7% grade. I've descended that grade a number of times at 21 - 25k lbs gross with various trucks. Even my '03 Duramax at 21k lbs gross and no exhaust brake held back at about 40 mph and 5100 rpm without using brakes. If you go slow enough you don't need an exhaust brake. :B

[Cummins12V98]

Huntindog wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
North bound I-5 coming into OR I drop into 3rd and it holds easily 50-55mph using cruise set a few mph lower than desired speed. I do apply the brakes on the 50mph curves. Brakes are cold and drops speed fast.

Decending from Jacob Lake towards Page and Flagstaff has some 30 MPH switchbacks. One really scary one with no guardrail. A mistake there and you will scream a long time before you die. I do this at least twice a year using only the exhaust brake. I select the gear I want manually. Because I have eyes and can see the curves approaching.
I am pretty heavy as well. Easily over 30K

Nice you understand your brain works better than the trucks!!!

Somewhere in the Rockies I hit a down hill for several miles at 14%. Locked in 2nd and easily descended without brake applications.

[Huntindog]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
North bound I-5 coming into OR I drop into 3rd and it holds easily 50-55mph using cruise set a few mph lower than desired speed. I do apply the brakes on the 50mph curves. Brakes are cold and drops speed fast.

Decending from Jacob Lake towards Page and Flagstaff has some 30 MPH switchbacks. One really scary one with no guardrail. A mistake there and you will scream a long time before you die. I do this at least twice a year using only the exhaust brake. I select the gear I want manually. Because I have eyes and can see the curves approaching.
I am pretty heavy as well. Easily over 30K

[liamricci]

It's fascinating to see the 2023 Power Stroke and 2023 Ram Cummins in a towing challenge. Both engines are known for their towing capabilities and performance. However, if you're looking to enhance the performance of your 6.7 Power Stroke, you might consider the ccv mod 6.7 powerstroke (Crankcase Ventilation Mod). This modification can improve the engine's efficiency and longevity by reducing oil and soot buildup in the intake system.

[Grit_dog]

^ACC makes sense. But It does it on regular cruise control too? That sucks….but I don’t doubt it.
The amount of “features” to save a driver from themselves is out of hand.
G**d*** Ralph Nader! Lol.

[Me_Again]

4x4ord wrote:
I think the secrete to better grade braking is electric axles on the trailers. Charge the batteries on the way down and help pull
on the way up.

I do not think many owners realize that Fords going down a hill on cruise control or ACC that the truck applies the service brakes including the trailer brakes. This could lead to overheating the trailer brakes without the driver realizing it. I am not sure if the others GM and RAM are the same now. I sure miss my 2015 RAM's exhaust brake going down passes and hills(always had nice cool service brakes) on my yearly commute to AZ and back to Wa.

[Cummins12V98]

North bound I-5 coming into OR I drop into 3rd and it holds easily 50-55mph using cruise set a few mph lower than desired speed. I do apply the brakes on the 50mph curves. Brakes are cold and drops speed fast.

[4x4ord]

^^^GM and Ford can hold back pretty good once the engine is revved up. The Cummins starts holding back at a much lower rpm but then doesn’t rev as high. Being able to hold back without dropping three gears is way nicer. So even if GM and Ford can provide the same reverse hp at 4000 rpm that the Cummins provides at 3000 rpm the clear winner is still the Cummins.

[FishOnOne]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
^^^If it’s just about marketing I think 8 gears and a few more ponies would probably be enough for Ram customers to be happy. If it’s about actually keeping up to Ford up the hill the Cummins being a little higher revving makes enough torque at 1075 lbft but needs 500 hp at 2800 rpm to run neck and neck with the HO Powerstroke. I think adding 80 hp might not necessarily be that easy to do. It might be easy enough to just add fuel but meeting emissions and keeping the heat away may require some significant changes.

As of recent years Ram/Cummins don't like to suck hind teet, so I suspect there will be significant changes with the next gen HD trucks powertrain. The big question is when?

I guess we could turn the tables and discuss when GM and Ford will get a better exhaust brake to keep up with RAM.

I think too much time is spent one upping with the more is better. Some like 4x4 get the inline 6 does just fine with 6.

With a different transmission shift strategy, I believe the GM's can be just as good as the Ram.

The next big metric will be fuel economy. Again the transmission plays a role there as well.

[Grit_dog]

Y’all will never convince 12V that there is anything better in this world or even equal to (let’s see if I get the list right) Aisin, Ram, Cummins, B&W, Amzoil…I may be missing a few.
It’s a both sides of his mouth thing. In one breath he touts only having the BEST and in the next it “works good enough so why would I change”.
In reality it’s what companies love. Extreme brand loyalty. (Not that I disagree with his taste in Trucks, hitches and oil, but it’s like a broken record stuck on repeat…)

[4x4ord]

I think the secrete to better grade braking is electric axles on the trailers. Charge the batteries on the way down and help pull
on the way up.

[Cummins12V98]

FishOnOne wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
^^^If it’s just about marketing I think 8 gears and a few more ponies would probably be enough for Ram customers to be happy. If it’s about actually keeping up to Ford up the hill the Cummins being a little higher revving makes enough torque at 1075 lbft but needs 500 hp at 2800 rpm to run neck and neck with the HO Powerstroke. I think adding 80 hp might not necessarily be that easy to do. It might be easy enough to just add fuel but meeting emissions and keeping the heat away may require some significant changes.

As of recent years Ram/Cummins don't like to suck hind teet, so I suspect there will be significant changes with the next gen HD trucks powertrain. The big question is when?

I guess we could turn the tables and discuss when GM and Ford will get a better exhaust brake to keep up with RAM.

I think too much time is spent one upping with the more is better. Some like 4x4 get the inline 6 does just fine with 6.

[Cummins12V98]

blt2ski wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:
The video that the troller posted originally has nothing to do with the HO engine and the Aisin transmission. It’s the old 68RFE that can’t handle the high output.

So, without question, a 2500 would perform better with a different transmission (preferably with 8 or 10 gears) that can handle more HP and TQ.

And if we’re making requests, let’s do a ZF since they are one of the best. And no, I don’t care even a little if the transmission is outsourced.

My 11 HO DRW 3.42's with 68rfe did a fine job with none of the complaints from others towing 30k combined. Probably because I ran the HE!! out of it for the first hundred miles, trained it well. Nice firm shifts! The only issue was getting the load rolling on grade. If it had 4.10's I would probably still own it pulling 35k+.

Ron,
You have just described the positive for the 8 and 10 sp transmissions. You won't need 4.10s with a 6 so to move 35k lbs. Because the 10 sp that Ford and GM use has a 4.56 iirc 1st gear vs you 3.5x. reality is, a 10 sp will have an overall low, lower than a 4.10 geared rig, yet give you the low rpm freeways gears.
My 6sp 4.3v6 has more torque hitting the ground than ANY of my 4.10 gear 4 so autos. I have a 4.10 in first, instead of a 2.48 in 1st, I can multiply more with my ra at 3.42.
This is what your missing with a 6 so vs a 10 sp.
My 6sp is better than my 4 so autos, not as good as the 8 so at 4.3 in 1st, 10 sp is about 4.5x. that lower gear you want for startup is in the transmission!
Ye Ford4x is correct, you may not tow much faster up hills on a freeway grade, UNLESS you can get more HP and or torque to the rear wheels.
Marty

I don't need lower gears than what the AISIN-3.42's deliver, with that combo I do have an extra highway gear. I also consider the dependability of the AISIN.