Ford finally releases specs for F-150 3.0L diesel

[ShinerBock]

Power - 250 hp at 3,250 RPM and 440 lb-ft at 1,750 RPM

Max Towing - 11,400 lbs


Still underpowered to me(your towing preferences may be different) for the size of truck it is going in and an 11k tow rating, but I am sure there will be a market for it like the Ecodiesel. By the towing specs, it seems to be offered in the HD F150 which is something Ram needs for the Ecodiesel and its dismal payload.


TFL Truck: FORD RELEASES POWER, TORQUE, TOWING SPECS FOR 3.0L POWERSTROKE DIESEL

[Allamakee1]

Ok back on topic. For those interested, I created a spreadsheet. It includes the exact national monthly average fuel prices for mid-grain gas and on-road diesel for every month throughout 2017 from the U.S. Energy Information Administration. I included things such as yearly maintenance, which includes oil changes for gas (45) and diesel (120) and fuel filters for diesel (30) multiplied by the factor of an oil change every 10k and filter every 20k. I used the fuelly numbers for comparing the EB to the ED as the ED is the only thing we currently have to compare and the EB seems to be of interest here for some. I also included DEF usage at 2%, I used the truck stop rate of around $2.80/Gallon.

I will tell you, for it to be a complete wash price wise, you would have to drive exactly 3,987.3 miles for them to cost you the same for the year. Anything less, the ED costs more to drive. Anything more, the EB costs more to drive. Take driving opinions into account from there, but there is nothing left to argue about with the actual numbers.

Couple examples on savings:
Yearly,
10,000 Miles = $271
20,000 Miles = $723
30,000 Miles = $1,174
40,000 Miles = $1,626

Ownership over multiple years....

Shout out a mileage and I will give you the ACTUAL cost difference.

[alexleblanc]

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:

Samsonsworld wrote:

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:




As does the EcoBoost engine! The 2014 had it's share of engine issues yes. Care to look at the EB's record in both engine failures and recalls? The only engine issue I have had was a coolant solenoid valve that was repaired under the powertrain coverage costing my nothing. That would be the only major issue have had some minor issues like the drivers puddle light and the fog lamps shaking. Both replaced under the 3/36,000 coverage at no cost.

Why do you bring up the EB? I never mentioned it. I'm more concerned about the reliability of these small diesels. I just hope the Ram isn't any indication of what to expect from the Ford.

But just for the record, the longest EB engine failure thread I could find was only 6 pages long.

Because the 3.0 is not out and the and the 3.5 had far more issues then the 3.o EcoD did. Maybe if you take your blinders off you could see that. Most of the Ram EcoD issues were in the first six months with the later 2014 trucks and on not having any more problems than any other engine out there today.

As for Fords 3.0 diesel I hope it has a good launch but I would not buy one for at least one year. That is what I did with the mine. I would never buy the first year of a any vehicle. Let the free beta testers get the bugs worked out then you have a better chance of not getting a problem child.

what are "all these issues the 3.5 had" ? other than the first gen F150's having a design change in the intercooler design there's been very little for issues. My Father in law still owns my old first year F150 EB with well other 190k on it now and its been issue free? my guys at work also mostly all drive 3.5 EB F150's save for one with a 5.0 and all have been reliable an issue free for many KM's.

[bucky]

Nice game of ping pong eh? Arguing about the future is ridiculous. The Blue Oval on the grill will give it a huge advantage in the marketplace at first. We'll see from there.

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

Bock VW was under investigation in early 2014 and the EPA on 09/15/2015 issued a notice of violation of the Clean Air Act.

I can tell you first hand VM could not supply the engines needed to fill orders until late 2015. I had to wait four months for my truck and in 2014 people were waiting up to six months to get their truck. The slow down in EcoD sales was do to our own dieselgate.

Although in the Rams there was not a cheat, but we failed to report some of the AECDs that all diesel engines have. This stopped all sales for the 2017 EcoD trucks by order of the EPA until late 2017.
if there was not customers out there wanting a smaller diesel Ford and GM would not be getting in this market right?

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

Samsonsworld wrote:

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:




As does the EcoBoost engine! The 2014 had it's share of engine issues yes. Care to look at the EB's record in both engine failures and recalls? The only engine issue I have had was a coolant solenoid valve that was repaired under the powertrain coverage costing my nothing. That would be the only major issue have had some minor issues like the drivers puddle light and the fog lamps shaking. Both replaced under the 3/36,000 coverage at no cost.

Why do you bring up the EB? I never mentioned it. I'm more concerned about the reliability of these small diesels. I just hope the Ram isn't any indication of what to expect from the Ford.

But just for the record, the longest EB engine failure thread I could find was only 6 pages long.

Because the 3.0 is not out and the and the 3.5 had far more issues then the 3.o EcoD did. Maybe if you take your blinders off you could see that. Most of the Ram EcoD issues were in the first six months with the later 2014 trucks and on not having any more problems than any other engine out there today.

As for Fords 3.0 diesel I hope it has a good launch but I would not buy one for at least one year. That is what I did with the mine. I would never buy the first year of a any vehicle. Let the free beta testers get the bugs worked out then you have a better chance of not getting a problem child.

[RobertRyan]

smurfs_of_war wrote:
Gents, is there any point to all of this? If so could we get to it please? I was enjoying this thread before the pot got tipped.

Somewhere in there, was a discusdion about the new Ford 3 litre Diesel

[smurfs_of_war]

Gents, is there any point to all of this? If so could we get to it please? I was enjoying this thread before the pot got tipped.

[ShinerBock]

Allamakee1 wrote:

Never said it will outsell the EB. Please show me where I said that. I think it is possible in the future with the scenarios I and Robert gave. I have no crystal ball though

Then why do you keep telling me that I am wrong when I say the EB will outsell diesel unless fuel prices increase? In order for you to say that I am wrong means that you believe the opposite will happen and that the diesel will outsell the Ecoboost

Allamakee1 wrote:
Oh you like the 3.5 EB. Never would have guessed that. I’ve driven one, never towed anything, very nice truck, drove very nice. Couldn’t comment on the immense power, performance, blah blah blah because I drove it like I would any other truck.

Oh and you don't like the Ecoboost. Never would have guessed that. Although I really don't care if you like it or not. Liking or disliking certain engines is not what this debate is about.

Allamakee1 wrote:
Your historical data with a 3.0 diesel is the first year that one was ever produced? Ok that’s a good sample pool......

You haven't been reading what what I have been saying have you and have just been disagreeing with me just because your personal feelings won't let you do otherwise at this point. If you would have been reading then you would have read where I stated that many in half ton truck market has a llllloooonnngggg history of purchasing the more powerful/less fuel efficient engine choice over the less powerful/more fuel efficient choice as long as the cost difference remain low.

Then there is the low 12% percentage of the Ecodiesel and the 10% GM expects out of the 2.8L Duramax. That along with it not being a big enough cost savings for the average pickup driver is how I came up with my opinion. It is not brought on by any personal bias for one engine over the other like yours is. If the data showed that this diesel would sell more than the Ecoboost then I would say it, but it shows otherwise.

Allamakee1 wrote:
Also, doesn’t sound like you even have any actual (my buddy drive one once and I sat inside) experience with the ED or any current 3.0 diesels. Correct?

Sort of, but it was a 300+ mile trip. What does that have to do with me being wrong on sales figures based off of market data and cost analysis?

The only that has to do with is me thinking that these small diesels don't have enough power for my preferences of how much power a half ton should have, but you will never change that no matter how blue in the face you get trying to convince me otherwise.

Allamakee1 wrote:
I already gave you the scenario where the total cost makes financial sense especially with the ED over the EB where the ED price is actually cheaper.

And your point is? The ED was cheaper even in my calculations of the average half ton truck buyer, but it was not enough of a difference to make most want to give up over 135 hp, more capability, and better performance. How many times do I have to repeat this? You do know as the OP of this thread that I am going to keep on responding right?

[Allamakee1]

ShinerBock wrote:

Allamakee1 wrote:

Um...good for you? All those diesels you owned, did they weight the same as the ED, same turbo setup, same 8 speed transmission and gearing? Same exact loads? You must be futuristic.

It is more like awesome for me.

Although what does that have to do with historical market trends that show that small diesels like the Ecodiesel only making up 12% of sales and other less powerful fuel efficient beings outsold by more powerful less fuel efficient engines? What does it have to have to do figuring out the minimal cost savings for most half ton owners? Just because I have put over 200k miles behind two 3.5L Ecoboost does not mean squat when we are talking about market trends and total cost so why would you think you owning an Ecodiesel would?

Allamakee1 wrote:
You said you work for Ford currently? The ED has only been out a couple years, but you have all this hearsay from people going into a ford dealership......Ok. Somebody from another automaker could say they heard xyz about the EB.

Yes I used to work for Ford and currently work for the nations largest medium and heavy duty truck dealership group which includes four Ford dealerships which gives me access to Fords FMCDealer portal.

Allamakee1 wrote:
Sales? Why would I say that? I said there is a niche for the truck. If your figures were correct, everyone below the national average for miles driven would not come out ahead unless they owned it for a long time. The diesel is supposed to be more expensive than the EB.

Then why do you keep saying I am wrong if even you are stating that this diesel will not outsell the EB? You are contradicting yourself here. If this diesel is more expensive then the EB, then what is the benefit? It surely is not power, towing performance, or capability. Why would you buy something that is less powerful, less capable, and cost you more?

Allamakee1 wrote:
As the option goes down when the novelty wears off and the diesel fear/hysteria dissipates, is it possible it may overtake the EB. I don’t know. Are you saying that’s not possible?

I keep saying that this engine will not outsell the Ecoboost(or even come close) and you keep saying that I am wrong. So which is it, do you or don't think it will outsell the Ecoboost? If you don't know then why do you keep saying I am wrong?

Never said it will outsell the EB. Please show me where I said that. I think it is possible in the future with the scenarios I and Robert gave. I have no crystal ball though.

Oh you like the 3.5 EB. Never would have guessed that. I’ve driven one, never towed anything, very nice truck, drove very nice. Couldn’t comment on the immense power, performance, blah blah blah because I drove it like I would any other truck.

Your historical data with a 3.0 diesel is the first year that one was ever produced? Ok that’s a good sample pool......

Also, doesn’t sound like you even have any actual (my buddy drive one once and I sat inside) experience with the ED or any current 3.0 diesels. Correct?

I already gave you the scenario where the total cost makes financial sense especially with the ED over the EB where the ED price is actually cheaper.

[ShinerBock]

Allamakee1 wrote:

Um...good for you? All those diesels you owned, did they weight the same as the ED, same turbo setup, same 8 speed transmission and gearing? Same exact loads? You must be futuristic.

It is more like awesome for me.

Although what does that have to do with historical market trends that show that small diesels like the Ecodiesel only making up 12% of sales and other less powerful fuel efficient beings outsold by more powerful less fuel efficient engines? What does it have to have to do figuring out the minimal cost savings for most half ton owners? Just because I have put over 200k miles behind two 3.5L Ecoboost does not mean squat when we are talking about market trends and total cost so why would you think you owning an Ecodiesel would?

Allamakee1 wrote:
You said you work for Ford currently? The ED has only been out a couple years, but you have all this hearsay from people going into a ford dealership......Ok. Somebody from another automaker could say they heard xyz about the EB.

Yes I used to work for Ford and currently work for the nations largest medium and heavy duty truck dealership group which includes four Ford dealerships which gives me access to Fords FMCDealer portal.

Allamakee1 wrote:
Sales? Why would I say that? I said there is a niche for the truck. If your figures were correct, everyone below the national average for miles driven would not come out ahead unless they owned it for a long time. The diesel is supposed to be more expensive than the EB.

Then why do you keep saying I am wrong if even you are stating that this diesel will not outsell the EB? You are contradicting yourself here. If this diesel is more expensive then the EB, then what is the benefit? It surely is not power, towing performance, or capability. Why would you buy something that is less powerful, less capable, and cost you more?

Allamakee1 wrote:
As the option goes down when the novelty wears off and the diesel fear/hysteria dissipates, is it possible it may overtake the EB. I don’t know. Are you saying that’s not possible?

I keep saying that this engine will not outsell the Ecoboost(or even come close) and you keep saying that I am wrong. So which is it, do you or don't think it will outsell the Ecoboost? If you don't know then why do you keep saying I am wrong?

[RobertRyan]

Allamakee1 wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

I have been a diesel owner for over 25 years with multiple diesels that started in the power range of this and the Ecodiesel's level and were modded because I could not stand towing at such slow speeds. I currently have two diesel vehciles, 6.7L Cummins and a 2.0L N47T. I have even worked for a diesel manufacturer(Cummins), various truck manufacturers(Ford & PACCAR), and currently work largest medium and heavy duty truck dealership group the US that sell many vehicles with power levels within this trucks range. Working for these manufacturers I listened to customers(both fleet and consumer) and studied the market. In short, just because I don't own an Ecodiesel doesn't mean I don't have valid insight on the matter.

If you want to claim that these diesels will sell more than the current Ecoboost trucks then that is fine, but past market history and a cost analysis for the average truck buyer tells me that most half ton truck buyers will not want to sacrifice over 130+hp to save less than $50 a month. Most who will buy this diesel will probably fleet buyers, but consumer purchases will probably be well below 20% just like the Ecodiesel which made up only 12% of Ram 1500 sales.

Now, before you say the you never said that this diesel will outsell the Ecoboost trucks, then why do you keep saying that I am wrong in my opinion? If my opinion is wrong then the only other thing that would be right is that they will either sale the same or more engines than the Ecoboost,which I do not think will happen.

Um...good for you? All those diesels you owned, did they weight the same as the ED, same turbo setup, same 8 speed transmission and gearing? Same exact loads? You must be futuristic.

You said you work for Ford currently? The ED has only been out a couple years, but you have all this hearsay from people going into a ford dealership......Ok. Somebody from another automaker could say they heard xyz about the EB.

Sales? Why would I say that? I said there is a niche for the truck. If your figures were correct, everyone below the national average for miles driven would not come out ahead unless they owned it for a long time. The diesel is supposed to be more expensive than the EB.

As the option goes down when the novelty wears off and the diesel fear/hysteria dissipates, is it possible it may overtake the EB. I don’t know. Are you saying that’s not possible?

All the OEMs except Toyota so far have released 3 litre Diesels. It is not because they had nothing too do. There is a reason behind this. If the manufacturers were going down their current path and the EPA further tightened the screws, bodies would have been made from Paper Mache 😞

[Allamakee1]

ShinerBock wrote:

I have been a diesel owner for over 25 years with multiple diesels that started in the power range of this and the Ecodiesel's level and were modded because I could not stand towing at such slow speeds. I currently have two diesel vehciles, 6.7L Cummins and a 2.0L N47T. I have even worked for a diesel manufacturer(Cummins), various truck manufacturers(Ford & PACCAR), and currently work largest medium and heavy duty truck dealership group the US that sell many vehicles with power levels within this trucks range. Working for these manufacturers I listened to customers(both fleet and consumer) and studied the market. In short, just because I don't own an Ecodiesel doesn't mean I don't have valid insight on the matter.

If you want to claim that these diesels will sell more than the current Ecoboost trucks then that is fine, but past market history and a cost analysis for the average truck buyer tells me that most half ton truck buyers will not want to sacrifice over 130+hp to save less than $50 a month. Most who will buy this diesel will probably fleet buyers, but consumer purchases will probably be well below 20% just like the Ecodiesel which made up only 12% of Ram 1500 sales.

Now, before you say the you never said that this diesel will outsell the Ecoboost trucks, then why do you keep saying that I am wrong in my opinion? If my opinion is wrong then the only other thing that would be right is that they will either sale the same or more engines than the Ecoboost,which I do not think will happen.

Um...good for you? All those diesels you owned, did they weight the same as the ED, same turbo setup, same 8 speed transmission and gearing? Same exact loads? You must be futuristic.

You said you work for Ford currently? The ED has only been out a couple years, but you have all this hearsay from people going into a ford dealership......Ok. Somebody from another automaker could say they heard xyz about the EB.

Sales? Why would I say that? I said there is a niche for the truck. If your figures were correct, everyone below the national average for miles driven would not come out ahead unless they owned it for a long time. The diesel is supposed to be more expensive than the EB.

As the option goes down when the novelty wears off and the diesel fear/hysteria dissipates, is it possible it may overtake the EB. I don’t know. Are you saying that’s not possible?

[ShinerBock]

RobertRyan wrote:

Now, before you say the you never said that this diesel will outsell the Ecoboost trucks, then why do you keep saying that I am wrong in my opinion that they will sell less? If my opinion is wrong then the only other things that would be right is that they will either sale the same or more engines than the Ecoboost(which I do not think will happen)

Depends on Fuel prices. If they skyrocket in the next couple of years, then that small diesel will boom.in sales.

And I stated the very same thing a few pages back. Currently it is not that much and it does not look like it will change anytime soon especially as vehicles become more fuel efficient and we use less oil. With current US shale production, OPEC does not have that much sway over oil prices as they once did to make oil prices sky rocket like before.

[RobertRyan]

Now, before you say the you never said that this diesel will outsell the Ecoboost trucks, then why do you keep saying that I am wrong in my opinion that they will sell less? If my opinion is wrong then the only other things that would be right is that they will either sale the same or more engines than the Ecoboost(which I do not think will happen)

Depends on Fuel prices. If they skyrocket in the next couple of years, then that small diesel will boom.in sales.

[ShinerBock]

Allamakee1 wrote:


That’s good, I’m glad your not getting frustrated.


Can I as an actual owner/driver of a similar vehicle to the one in question have an opinion also, maybe a different one? Dare I say, more valuable one than a non-owner to those interested in this type of engine. I listened to your opinions, however I disagree with the future trend you see with these trucks and capabilities by the way. You are not my target audience in this debate.

I have been a diesel owner for over 25 years with multiple diesels that started in the power range of this and the Ecodiesel's level and were modded because I could not stand towing at such slow speeds. I currently have two diesel vehciles, 6.7L Cummins and a 2.0L N47T. I have even worked for a diesel manufacturer(Cummins), various truck manufacturers(Ford & PACCAR), and currently work largest medium and heavy duty truck dealership group the US that sell many vehicles with power levels within this trucks range. Working for these manufacturers I listened to customers(both fleet and consumer) and studied the market. In short, just because I don't own an Ecodiesel doesn't mean I don't have valid insight on the matter.

If you want to claim that these diesels will sell more than the current Ecoboost trucks then that is fine, but past market history and a cost analysis for the average truck buyer tells me that most half ton truck buyers will not want to sacrifice over 130+hp to save less than $50 a month. Most who will buy this diesel will probably fleet buyers, but consumer purchases will probably be well below 20% just like the Ecodiesel which made up only 12% of Ram 1500 sales.

Now, before you say the you never said that this diesel will outsell the Ecoboost trucks, then why do you keep saying that I am wrong in my opinion? If my opinion is wrong then the only other thing that would be right is that they will either sale the same or more engines than the Ecoboost,which I do not think will happen.