Gear Vendors for Excursion V-10 4.30 rear

[jspringator]

I have a 2001 Excursion with a V-10 and 4.30's. I tow a 33 foot high profile TT that has a gross weight of 9,000 pounds. I found a great tune, 5-star 87 performance, that made a big difference.

I was wondering if anyone has tried a Gear Vendors OD in this application. It would be useful to have a gear between OD and OD out. I suppose that is what they call "gear splitting". $3,000 sounds like a lot, but another truck (or lighter trailer) would cost a lot more. It does have 190,000 miles on it now, but runs great, and is in great condition. I expect another 100,000 miles of use.

I am looking for ease of towing, and I understand that any mileage increase wouldn't pay for the unit.

[dodge_guy]

jspringator wrote:
I can get a lower gear by punching out of OD and putting it in 3rd. Probably roughly equivalent to the 4.88. I'm looking for something between OD and 3rd. If my non-towing mileage were better I would get much more use from the truck. If I could get 18-20 mpg or so consistently on the road, I would drive it a lot more.

It did the best it had ever done on my last tow with the performance tune. I guess after that performance, I was willing to make a commitment to the truck. I'll probably do this within the next year.

Nope! the final drive effectively changes the ratio of each gear in the trans. so going from a 4.30-4.88 would net you more "leverage" and move the powerband up in each gear. so if the truck drops out of O/D when towing in a hilly area with the 4.30 a switch to 4.88 will allow the truck to stay in O/D longer and make better use of the available power.

[jspringator]

I can get a lower gear by punching out of OD and putting it in 3rd. Probably roughly equivalent to the 4.88. I'm looking for something between OD and 3rd. If my non-towing mileage were better I would get much more use from the truck. If I could get 18-20 mpg or so consistently on the road, I would drive it a lot more.

It did the best it had ever done on my last tow with the performance tune. I guess after that performance, I was willing to make a commitment to the truck. I'll probably do this within the next year.

[WE3ZS]

Hi Jim,
If you are not totally happy with the V-10's current pulling abilities and performance (although with stock tire size and 4.30 gears it should do fine) you may want to look into 4.56 or even 4.88 gears. Being a 2WD rig the cost to regear isn't too bad and much less than the GV unit. I towed for 2 years (9500 to 10,200 lb toyhauler) with my V-10 EX after my 4.88 gear swap before upgrading to the current 35" tires which bring the effective ratio back down to 4.39. With the true 4.88 gears it was a towing beast that ate up hills and stayed OD on some pretty steep grades. It also got better towing fuel mileage (9 vs 7 to 7.5 MPG) with the deeper gears vs the stock 3.73 setup. With the 32" tires and 4.88 gears it cruised at 65 MPH at 2430 RPMs.
Something to consider. I have more info posted over at the EX forum.

[jspringator]

BurbMan wrote:
Holy cow you have 400k miles on that van? Pretty awesome, hope I can get anywhere near that.

That isn't unheard of with Ford V-10's. I've heard reports of airport shuttle bus V-10's with 500,000 miles.

[BurbMan]

Holy cow you have 400k miles on that van? Pretty awesome, hope I can get anywhere near that.

[Bedlam]

Thanks - I didn't know the Allison used an external TCM. I was imagining having to put in much more GM/Delco electronics and wiring to make it work properly. I can see how Ford PCM firmware supporting combinations not possible at the time could be an issue.

This is a lot different than my "old school" experience like sticking an Ecotec on to a VW bus transaxle where you only have to worry mechanical interfaces...

[carringb]

Bedlam wrote:
The 5R110 was used on later model V10's and the 6R140 is used on F650 and F750 with the V10. You may have better luck matching up a newer Ford transmission than trying to get the Allison to work.

To use the 5R110 on an older V10, you have to do PCM, engine wire harness (or modify it by adding the missing pairs), and throttle body swap from an '05+ E-series V10. And after all that, you still don't get double-OD.

You can't put a 6R140 behind a 2-valve V10. You have to install a 3-valve V10. This is because Ford only uses integrated PCM-TCMs.

The Allison uses an external TCM, and it actually works fine with the stock Ford PCM because once you can select "Manual Transmission" from the Ford programming menu, it simply turns off its TCM.

[BenK]

More To See wrote:
snip....

My understanding is that they should not be engaged in an engine braking situation - or in reverse. I never do it.

Oh...yeah had forgotten about that and one reason hadn't yet

Another is the I like them better than US Gear, but US Gear did not
have that issue...but US Gear has come and gone so many times don't
know who owns them, nor if they are still selling product

For me, not cost benefit but functional benefit

Close ratio used to have a down side for us boy racers...almost pure
track tranny, as out on the road it then did not have the right gears
for cruising

With splitting gears...the OEM's choices of gears is supplemented with
both inter gear ratio splits and if done right, higher OD at the end
of the gears available

[More_To_See]

Sport45 wrote:
When I was looking at these ten or twelve years ago the Gear Vendor OD units were not rated for reverse torque. In other words, they were supposed to be shut off if you were in reverse or using engine braking on a downgrade. The US Gear units were rated for full torque in either direction. I don't know if GV has changed their system to allow use on downhills or not. I think US Gear is completely out of business...

My understanding is that they should not be engaged in an engine braking situation - or in reverse. I never do it.

[Sport45]

jspringator wrote:
I have a 2001 Excursion with a V-10 and 4.30's. I tow a 33 foot high profile TT that has a gross weight of 9,000 pounds. I found a great tune, 5-star 87 performance, that made a big difference.

I was wondering if anyone has tried a Gear Vendors OD in this application. It would be useful to have a gear between OD and OD out. I suppose that is what they call "gear splitting". $3,000 sounds like a lot, but another truck (or lighter trailer) would cost a lot more. It does have 190,000 miles on it now, but runs great, and is in great condition. I expect another 100,000 miles of use.

I am looking for ease of towing, and I understand that any mileage increase wouldn't pay for the unit.

When I was looking at these ten or twelve years ago the Gear Vendor OD units were not rated for reverse torque. In other words, they were supposed to be shut off if you were in reverse or using engine braking on a downgrade. The US Gear units were rated for full torque in either direction. I don't know if GV has changed their system to allow use on downhills or not. I think US Gear is completely out of business...

[Bedlam]

The 5R110 was used on later model V10's and the 6R140 is used on F650 and F750 with the V10. You may have better luck matching up a newer Ford transmission than trying to get the Allison to work.

[carringb]

I had considered a GearVenders before, when I had around 200,000 miles. I though I had too many miles to keep my van much longer. But then around 300,000 I started thinking about again, and again decided against. Now at 405,000 miles I wish I had done it. It would have easily paid for itself and then some, with the miles I've put on. The main reason I would like it though is for the in-between ratios, mainly 2+ but occasionally on long, high elevation pulls (i.e. 10%+ over 6,000 ft) a 1+ ratio would be perfect, as my 2nd gear is a tad too tall.

I've also though about doing an Allison 1000 conversion, but the 6-speed valve body only allows sequential shifting, so I would lost some passing power when solo, and I'm technically above the HP rating for the Ally 1000 without torque management (I don't think the stock engine PCM will maintain torque management with an aftermarket TCM).

[time2roll]

OD is a bit of a jump. Maybe go to 4.56/4.88 gear to stay in OD more or go 3.73/4.10 and don't use OD unless downhill with a tail wind.

Need to do some calculating about what RPM/speed/gear you want to be in.

[Sport45]

Or check that the fan clutch is disengaging when it should.