Is a Tundra out of the Question

[jaydub74]

I think we've settled on a TT, Kodiak 263RLSL
Unloaded Weight 5,806
Cargo Capacity 1,794
Hitch 697
Length 31' (this much include hitch)
Height 10' 7
Width 8'
Fresh Water 52
Waste Water 28
Grey Water 39
Furnace Size (BTUs) 30,000

Now I'm just trying to match a truck to the unit. Ideally we'd like to avoid a 2500 truck and stay within the half ton realm. I've been looking at Tundra Crew Max 4x4. Here are its specs.

Payload 1410 lbs
Curb Weight: 5850 lbs
Towing Capacity: 9600 lbs
Wheel Base 145.7

Plan is to pull it for six months are the USA (some mountain included).
Would adding a pro-pride hitch or equivalent improve it?

Thanks
Josh

[HGL]

I have to tell you that we had a 2012 F-150 "Heavy" with all the trimmings. Our max trailer weight with fully loaded TT was 8995. We were never at that rating. After a year we upgraded to the F-350, not because the truck couldn't handle it, but because my husband didn't like being near the max capacity of the trailer. We are looking to go full time in two years and we got a deal we couldn't pass up to upgrade the truck.

Yes, its doable. Yes, things will go fine. Yes, you'll be sucking fuel to make the passes if you are heading through the western states, especially if you are at elevation. Yes, you will probably be in the right lane along with the big rigs when pulling up some of the high grade passes that are out west.

Will you feel comfortable with all of that??? Only you know the answer to that. My husband who spent many years in the Army hauling between 100 & 200k a year with all sorts of loads felt that having a vehicle that was not at its maximum was a better decision for our family.

When we hauled the passes with our 150 we averaged 7.3mpg, now with 350 Diesel we averaged 13.9mpg. The cost for diesel in our area is currently the same or less then gas so we actually have saved money with the fuel.

Good Luck on your purchase and enjoy the trip!

[jon_lansing]

spoon059:

You guys that think you can only tow safely with a 3/4 ton or bigger make me laugh. Do I think a 3/4 ton would drive different than my 1/2 ton, sure, but am I unsafe with my combo, not a chance.
I always bring up this point and the thread seems to just stop... or turn away from that argument into something else...

There is a certain group of people who think that 1/2 ton trucks can't pull anything. They remark about the lack of brakes and non floating rear axle. The idea that a 6000 lbs truck can pull an 8000 lbs trailer is laughable and only acceptable if you are mentally ill. "Pulling a trailer that is heavier than the truck??? That's the tail wagging the dog!" "Those little puny brakes won't be able to stop you if the trailer brakes go out."

The same people have no problem with an 8000 lbs truck pulling a 16,000 lbs trailer. I don't know how a trailer that is 2000 lbs heavier than the truck is insane... but a trailer that weighs TWICE AS MUCH is inherently safer. An emergency stop with 24,000 lbs and no trailer brakes... perfectly safe in the mountains... right?

Look, some of us are intelligent here and know that a 3/4 ton truck is better for towing than a 1/2 ton. We also know a 1 ton is better. Then again, so is a class 8 tractor. Just because something is BETTER than a half ton does not mean that the half ton isn't adequate for the job. For people that can't afford to go drop $40K on a new heavy duty truck, can't afford to register it, can't afford to insure it, don't want to deal with the heavier weight when not towing, or any other plethora of reasons than there is nothing wrong with a properly set up half ton towing within its perimeters.

My half ton Tundra has performed flawlessly for me over the 4 years I have been towing my 6500 lbs camper. Up and down the Appalachain mountain chain, up and down the eastern seaboard it has been fantastic. No sway, no "white knuckle" experiences. Plenty of power and safe braking every time. Thankfully I drive in a manner that reduces the likelihood that I will need to make an "emergency stop". I am also young enough that my reaction time is likely much less than some of the older guys driving 1 tons...

My Tundra is a vehicle of compromise. I am 33 years old and have a young family. If I am lucky I get one or 2 extended (over 1000 miles round trip) trips a year and hopefully 5-7 shorter trips per year. For my miles towed and the weight of my trailer I do not want, nor do I need a heavier truck.

All the bluster and bravado on rv.net is ridiculous at best. My 5 year old Tundra with a GCVWR of 12,000 lbs will stop better in this "emergency situation" than the guy with the 10+ year old 1 ton truck with a GCVWR of 24,000 lbs. That is simple physics...

Very well said Spoon, I continued to read all 9 pages of truck debate kinda chuckling inside as I went along, I just couldn't stop about the time I felt I needed to share my opinion I read this reply. Which is very much inline with my thoughts. So the shortened version of my opinion, I will preface this with my qualifications to make the opinion, I am an ASE Advanced level Master tech, I hold master status in 4 high end European brands, I have worked on many of the Big 3's vehicles, I was expert certified at Toyota, I am currently a Technical trainer for a high line luxury brand. I also fall into the same category as Spoon, I am relatively young, I have a Young family I have no other reason to own a large truck other than the camper we have that makes a few trips per year. So we purchased a new 2010 Tundra crew max back in 2010, it has the 5.7 liter which in a personal opinion is far superior to the big 3 gas engines, rated at 380+ hp, over 400 lb-ft of torque it is well in the diesel range of years past, (2000 f350 7.3 was 210 hp, 425 lb-ft) I had one (1999 dually diesel) as a work truck I pulled an equipment trailer with various construction equipment it pulled well equipment and trailer well over 20,000 lbs. When buying my Tundra we looked at 3/4 tons $50,000+ was a little out of the budget, I also needed to commute in it, that would be the primary use, they rode terrible, all of them! Fuel economy was poor, I had a co-worker with a silverado it did get 21+ commuting but it was the 5.3 to get the power from a big 3 truck you need the big engine the fuel economy is really low then, the tundra made sense, I fully trust the vehicle, I was really hesitant to spend the money on general motors or ford or dodge, really. Real world use of my tundra at first I would get 18.5 mpg commuting, changed tires to better Michelin lost 1 mpg, but better heavier tire= safer. those that look down on the "1/2" ton brakes should take a look at them, they are big these days and very capable. 2014 f350 14.3" tundra 13.9" those are both huge in terms of brake rotors and very capable. Our trailer is about 6500 lbs loaded, the truck weighs just under 6000 lbs. Do I feel it behind me? Yeah its there. Do I have any problems accelerating, no, maintaining speed, no, Fuel economy, sure I wish it was better, 8-9 mpg pulling, do I regret buying a Tundra, nope. In terms of ride, I will honestly say the ride quality of the Tundra is only rivaled in the very high end luxury vehicles. Really give one a try, then go test drive a Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Lexus... I have the experience to back it, the vehicles I have driven that ride better and are quieter on the highway than My Tundra, Rolls Royce Phantom, not the Ghost, 2014 Range Rover. The rear seat leg room on the crew max is unmatched by any truck I have been in. The one negative I have with my Tundra is fuel capacity, I wish it had a bigger tank for longer range particularly when towing.

So now that we have had a 9 page debate about trucks the bottom line. If I could afford it and didn't need to rely on it for anything else or truly needed it sure a 3/4 or 1 ton would be it. Otherwise I would endorse a Tundra especially if you need it for other things other than towing. I would encourage you to look for used and maybe a short lease if that looks like it will work for you. I would love to be in your shoes to tank a long trip with the family like that. I would assume you have other vehicles, have you thought about the possibility to find a driveable for that trip and tow a second car, maybe a nice class C.

[oughtsix]

My trailer is pretty close in specs to your trailer. I pull my trailer with a crew cab long bed 2006 2500 Duramax. It pulls great. Maybe my Duramax is more truck than I need but I really wouldn't want to pull my loaded trailer with less truck.

[2112]

I didn't read all 9 pages. Did anyone ask where the tanks are located and mention how this will affect tongue weight? 50 gallons of water weighs 400 lbs.

[spoon059]

Fair enough bpounds. When I bought my Tundra new if 2010, it was about $7K cheaper than a 3/4 ton gasser. That was no small pocket change for me, it still isn't. Figure $7K towards a nicer camper, where you will be spending a lot of your time trying to relax. Figure $7K towards more gas or another month on the road. For those that are trying to travel on a smaller budget, half tons are a necessary and safe (when you know your weights and abide by them) compromise.

Heck, I would LOVE to go out and buy a Ram 6.4 gasser right now, either the 3/4 or 1 ton with coil suspension (don't know if 1 ton has it or not). If I had the money, I would do it. Unfortunately, I am still in the "compromise mode" of RVing.

[bpounds]

spoon059 wrote:

Look, some of us are intelligent here and know that a 3/4 ton truck is better for towing than a 1/2 ton. We also know a 1 ton is better. Then again, so is a class 8 tractor. Just because something is BETTER than a half ton does not mean that the half ton isn't adequate for the job. For people that can't afford to go drop $40K on a new heavy duty truck, can't afford to register it, can't afford to insure it, don't want to deal with the heavier weight when not towing, or any other plethora of reasons than there is nothing wrong with a properly set up half ton towing within its perimeters.

spoon059 wrote:

All the ignorance about half ton trucks is just as misleading as people claiming they can (safely) pull a trailer with a golf cart in the bed. How many people are we scaring away from enjoying the experience of camping when we tell them that their half ton can't pull a sub 8000 lbs trailer? How many people have a half ton and want to buy a small camper and experience what this country has to offer and get talked out of it because the fear mongorers amongst us scare them into thinking their half ton won't do the job? Those that can't afford a $20K camper AND a new truck are scared away from the one thing that we all supposedly share in common.

Quoting just a couple of your points to add my comments.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, and speaking only for myself, I never said a 1/2 ton was not adequate for the load the OP was asking about. I think it will work fine. What I did say is that, it doesn't make sense to go out and buy a 1/2 ton to go full-timing. And I think some of your comments above represent a misconception among many that a 3/4 ton or 1 ton costs a lot more to own and operate. I just don't think that is true. The cost of a well equipped Tundra is pretty danged high, and it is going to be really close to an equally equipped 3/4 ton truck. As for registration, here in CA where our registration is higher than just about any state, we have to register all pickups as commercial and we have to pay weight fees on their GVWR. I'm sure a 3/4 ton cost a little more because it does weigh more, but it is going to be a small fraction of the total registration. Insurance is going to be a little higher, but not much, so let's not overstate how much extra all this costs. The difference is peanuts. The fuel mileage *while towing* is also going to be pretty close. I also don't think most 1/2 ton owners realize just how much more truck they are getting with a 3/4 ton, and unless you've owned current versions of both you aren't going to get it.

Now where I really agree with you is how much nicer the 1/2 tons ride when not towing, and general good behavior around town. They are more comfortable. But the OP asked about a truck specifically for towing and full-timing. The 3/4 ton is a better tool for the job. Doesn't mean a lesser tool can't do the job.

If someone owns a 1/2 ton, I say use it. Enjoy. But if you are buying a tool for the specific job of towing, get the better tool for about the same money. Just makes good sense.

[CaLBaR]

spoon059 wrote:


All the ignorance about half ton trucks is just as misleading as people claiming they can (safely) pull a trailer with a golf cart in the bed. How many people are we scaring away from enjoying the experience of camping when we tell them that their half ton can't pull a sub 8000 lbs trailer? How many people have a half ton and want to buy a small camper and experience what this country has to offer and get talked out of it because the fear mongorers amongst us scare them into thinking their half ton won't do the job? Those that can't afford a $20K camper AND a new truck are scared away from the one thing that we all supposedly share in common.

Well said. I totally agree with you.

[spoon059]

westend wrote:
I'm not knocking Tundras...

maybe it's all like a space shuttle down hill.

Sure does give the illusion you are knocking Tundras...

I will wholeheartedly agree that it is poor advice to recommend grossly exceeding your payload capacity. One should NOT tow a trailer with a golf cart in the bed of a Tundra.

If you have a trailer with a relatively low payload, say 850 loaded tongue weight, and you have an additional 600 lbs of payload leftover for 2 adults you should be okay. The OP needs to do some math and figure out what gear he plans to bring and where he plans to store it. When I go camping its my pregnant wife, my 2 year old daughter, me and 3 small dogs in the truck. We weigh under 500 lbs. We bring a small cooler with drinks and some fruit and perhaps a laptop and camera. Still under 500 lbs of gear in the truck. 850 tongue weight and 500 lbs of gear is 1350 lbs. Figure another 50 lbs for WDH, we are at 1400 lbs. That is right at the OP's specs.

He should be fine with the Tundra if he doesn't wish to purchase a 3/4 ton truck.

All the ignorance about half ton trucks is just as misleading as people claiming they can (safely) pull a trailer with a golf cart in the bed. How many people are we scaring away from enjoying the experience of camping when we tell them that their half ton can't pull a sub 8000 lbs trailer? How many people have a half ton and want to buy a small camper and experience what this country has to offer and get talked out of it because the fear mongorers amongst us scare them into thinking their half ton won't do the job? Those that can't afford a $20K camper AND a new truck are scared away from the one thing that we all supposedly share in common.

[westend]

spoon059 wrote:

westend wrote:
OK, let me rephrase since you didn't understand me: Will someone please explain to me how a 1/2 ton truck connected to a trailer weighing 8000 lbs.......

BTW, I know all about tongue weight and WDH and this has to do with the "awareness" of 3-4 tons being pulled. I'd just like to know if some folks can pull that much weight and 30' in length and drive like "there is nothing back there". I don't get it.

Come on... its an expression. Obviously they know they are towing, they have to stop for gas twice as often. I believe when people say that, they mean that they aren't getting dragged all over the road by some out of control swaying trailer or being out of control and pushed down the hill by an overweight trailer.

My Tundra pulls my camper just fine. No sway at all. Not in high wind, not when passed by a semi, nothing. Its rock solid behind me. Went to Florida last February and got hit with some nasty wind on the ride home. 30+ mph wind head on and from the drivers side. Didn't get pushed around at all.

I've never been pushed down a hill either. I don't have a diesel with engine braking, but I do have a tow mode and can manually downshift. A combination of minimal braking, proper speed at the beginning of descent and downshifting has never had me going too fast through the mountains.

I've never felt like I am dragging an anchor either. My 5.7 has PLENTY of power to get me going and keep me going. I've been on 6 or 7% grades and was able to easily keep my speed up the hill. I will admit that I rarely encounter those grades for longer than a couple miles, and never in brutally hot conditions, but the truck has handled superbly.

I assume that is what other posters mean when they say they towed it like there was nothing there...

I'm not knocking Tundras. I'm not knocking 1/2 tons...or anything else for that matter. What I don't get is that somebody can attach an 8K lb trailer, stick a golf cart in the bed and state that the feeling is as if they are diving as if unloaded. That's how I interpret "as if it's not there". I don't believe it's accurate and if someone comes looking for towing advice, like the OP, they might get surprised when they start towing. Maybe not, maybe it's all like a space shuttle down hill.

[spoon059]

westend wrote:
OK, let me rephrase since you didn't understand me: Will someone please explain to me how a 1/2 ton truck connected to a trailer weighing 8000 lbs.......

BTW, I know all about tongue weight and WDH and this has to do with the "awareness" of 3-4 tons being pulled. I'd just like to know if some folks can pull that much weight and 30' in length and drive like "there is nothing back there". I don't get it.

Come on... its an expression. Obviously they know they are towing, they have to stop for gas twice as often. I believe when people say that, they mean that they aren't getting dragged all over the road by some out of control swaying trailer or being out of control and pushed down the hill by an overweight trailer.

My Tundra pulls my camper just fine. No sway at all. Not in high wind, not when passed by a semi, nothing. Its rock solid behind me. Went to Florida last February and got hit with some nasty wind on the ride home. 30+ mph wind head on and from the drivers side. Didn't get pushed around at all.

I've never been pushed down a hill either. I don't have a diesel with engine braking, but I do have a tow mode and can manually downshift. A combination of minimal braking, proper speed at the beginning of descent and downshifting has never had me going too fast through the mountains.

I've never felt like I am dragging an anchor either. My 5.7 has PLENTY of power to get me going and keep me going. I've been on 6 or 7% grades and was able to easily keep my speed up the hill. I will admit that I rarely encounter those grades for longer than a couple miles, and never in brutally hot conditions, but the truck has handled superbly.

I assume that is what other posters mean when they say they towed it like there was nothing there...

[spoon059]

CaLBaR wrote:
Are you trying to tell me that I have a worse combination than a 1 ton that weighs about 8000lbs or so with a 14000 lb 5th wheel? I think not.

You guys that think you can only tow safely with a 3/4 ton or bigger make me laugh. Do I think a 3/4 ton would drive different than my 1/2 ton, sure, but am I unsafe with my combo, not a chance.

I always bring up this point and the thread seems to just stop... or turn away from that argument into something else...

There is a certain group of people who think that 1/2 ton trucks can't pull anything. They remark about the lack of brakes and non floating rear axle. The idea that a 6000 lbs truck can pull an 8000 lbs trailer is laughable and only acceptable if you are mentally ill. "Pulling a trailer that is heavier than the truck??? That's the tail wagging the dog!" "Those little puny brakes won't be able to stop you if the trailer brakes go out."

The same people have no problem with an 8000 lbs truck pulling a 16,000 lbs trailer. I don't know how a trailer that is 2000 lbs heavier than the truck is insane... but a trailer that weighs TWICE AS MUCH is inherently safer. An emergency stop with 24,000 lbs and no trailer brakes... perfectly safe in the mountains... right?

Look, some of us are intelligent here and know that a 3/4 ton truck is better for towing than a 1/2 ton. We also know a 1 ton is better. Then again, so is a class 8 tractor. Just because something is BETTER than a half ton does not mean that the half ton isn't adequate for the job. For people that can't afford to go drop $40K on a new heavy duty truck, can't afford to register it, can't afford to insure it, don't want to deal with the heavier weight when not towing, or any other plethora of reasons than there is nothing wrong with a properly set up half ton towing within its perimeters.

My half ton Tundra has performed flawlessly for me over the 4 years I have been towing my 6500 lbs camper. Up and down the Appalachain mountain chain, up and down the eastern seaboard it has been fantastic. No sway, no "white knuckle" experiences. Plenty of power and safe braking every time. Thankfully I drive in a manner that reduces the likelihood that I will need to make an "emergency stop". I am also young enough that my reaction time is likely much less than some of the older guys driving 1 tons...

My Tundra is a vehicle of compromise. I am 33 years old and have a young family. If I am lucky I get one or 2 extended (over 1000 miles round trip) trips a year and hopefully 5-7 shorter trips per year. For my miles towed and the weight of my trailer I do not want, nor do I need a heavier truck.

All the bluster and bravado on rv.net is ridiculous at best. My 5 year old Tundra with a GCVWR of 12,000 lbs will stop better in this "emergency situation" than the guy with the 10+ year old 1 ton truck with a GCVWR of 24,000 lbs. That is simple physics...

[westend]

DarrellQ2001 wrote:

westend wrote:
Will someone please explain to me how a 1/2 ton truck with 8000 lbs on the ball is "no problem", "just fine","like it isn't even back there", etc.? I've done a bit of towing and if you are not sensing that there is 8K on a trailer in back of you, the rig is either coasting or parked. Is this just internet hyperbole?

Who ever said there was 8000 lbs on the ball? I said the gross weight of the trailer is 8000 lbs. If you have ever done "a bit of towing" you would know there is such thing as "tongue weight" and weight distribution hitches. My 8000 lb TT puts no more than 600 lbs on the ball when the weight distro system is adjusted properly. And, no, I can hardly tell it is back there.

OK, let me rephrase since you didn't understand me: Will someone please explain to me how a 1/2 ton truck connected to a trailer weighing 8000 lbs.......

BTW, I know all about tongue weight and WDH and this has to do with the "awareness" of 3-4 tons being pulled. I'd just like to know if some folks can pull that much weight and 30' in length and drive like "there is nothing back there". I don't get it.

[CaLBaR]

keymastr wrote:
No, most of these people have never had to panic stop these rigs or driven them down steep mountain passes and my guess is that they have never driven the same size trailers with a 3/4 ton or larger truck to know the difference. Then they get butt hurt because they perceive this to be an attack on their particular truck rather than the safety discussion it really is.

Just because someone else has gotten away with it does not mean you should also push the limit. If you are purchasing a TV or trailer why not make sure they fit well within the limit not barely within the limit? You have the opportunity to make the choice.

Your right. I have never towed with a 3/4 ton truck to compare the difference. I have however towed the Rockies in BC, the mountains from Ontario to Florida and have never had an issue with either 1/2 ton I have towed with and the Tundra is better than the 2006 Sierra that I had. I have also had a couple of panic stops unfortunately, but no issues there either. Towed in the pouring rain in the mountains too, imagine that, up and down the passes and never had an issue even keeping up with traffic. I fail to see your point, my truck is about 6000lbs and my trailer is 7200 lbs wet. Are you trying to tell me that I have a worse combination than a 1 ton that weighs about 8000lbs or so with a 14000 lb 5th wheel? I think not.

You guys that think you can only tow safely with a 3/4 ton or bigger make me laugh. Do I think a 3/4 ton would drive different than my 1/2 ton, sure, but am I unsafe with my combo, not a chance.

Oh and by the way this is with over 40,000 km of towing over the last 8 years too with DW, DS, DD and the dog. All of which I would never put in jeopardy.

[DarrellQ2001]

westend wrote:
Will someone please explain to me how a 1/2 ton truck with 8000 lbs on the ball is "no problem", "just fine","like it isn't even back there", etc.? I've done a bit of towing and if you are not sensing that there is 8K on a trailer in back of you, the rig is either coasting or parked. Is this just internet hyperbole?

Who ever said there was 8000 lbs on the ball? I said the gross weight of the trailer is 8000 lbs. If you have ever done "a bit of towing" you would know there is such thing as "tongue weight" and weight distribution hitches. My 8000 lb TT puts no more than 600 lbs on the ball when the weight distro system is adjusted properly. And, no, I can hardly tell it is back there.