Tire wear & Trailer Alignment issues

[larryd78610]

Last couple of days I've been reading through a number of posts on TT axle alignment. Some by Senior members of rv.net.

Especially a couple of posts by JBarca and his experience of working to the bottom of his TT axle alignment problem.

After reading his post I'm thinking about pulling the Kodiak disc brake mod off, cutting off the hangers, dragging the junk away and starting from scratch. 🙂

I'm researching my alignment problem so when I do post I can have some solid information to go along with the puzzling situation I have found myself in.

We own a 2013 Dutchmen Rubicon 2900 Toy Hauler purchased new Feb 2013. We had educated ourselves, or so I thought about pre inspecting the new trailer at purchase time but in no way were we prepared for the issues we run into. I would have had to remove the bottom cover in order to find some of the issues. We made it 500 miles down the road when I noticed the propane tanks were mounted with only one screw, the others had the heads popped off. I think they had a monkey using the air wrench on the self breaking head screws.

Kind of like when you go down to purchase your new TV you kind of expect that all the tires are the same, the doors open, brakes work that kind of thing. Not the case with our Dutchmen but I'm not here today to go through all that.


I would like to ask a question before I get too deep into a axle alignment post soon coming concerning my current issues. It seems I started losing the battle after installing a ProPride 1400 hitch.

I suspect the trailer has had alignment issues from day 1 due to tire wear. I originally blamed it on getting into places where I'd just about have to jack knife the TT to get out of. Anyway, I digress..

Here's the question. Would it be correct to say that if my WD system is not setup correctly, getting the TT axles weighed while hooked up, with the WD applied, theres a possibility my axle weights would likely be different then when there is no WD applied?

Even though my front and rear axles are within 20lbs of each other (front heavier as it's always been) I'm wondering if I can trust the numbers. I believe the current numbers I have are the closest it's been. front = 5440, rear =5420
This may be a dumb question but ya never learn anything unless you ask.

We've done lots of wheel or corner weighin's but in the current situation I'm working with Black Cat axle weight-ins. We'll be getting another corner weigh-in next month, but now that I think about it the corner weigh-in's were never done without WD applied?

I hope this weekend to do some measuring to find out if my axles are parallel and straight with the frame.
I don't have all the numerous combination squares and long steel rules that JBarca has but I just purchased a fancy laser measuring tool that will be in tomorrow that supposed to be accurate within 1/16 which I'm sure is tighter tolerance than what it will be used to measure. 🙂

We'll see how that works out. Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.

[BarneyS]

In looking at your picture of the TrailAir suspension, it looks to me like the bottom half of the left outboard spring shackle is missing. Those shackles wear quickly and should be replaced with better ones sooner rather than later. This could be part of your tire wear problem.
It might be just an oil stain in the picture though.
Barney

[jmtandem]

but the suspension looks pretty bad. Axles looked fine. they were also dated 11/15 TH is was built 02/13

Obviously there is rust. Your bushings may be toast. Mine were getting bad in as little as 5000 miles. They were some kind of plastic. As soon as they go bad the bushings allow movement and that can contribute to some of your tire wear issues. I went with the Dexter bushings. Also, add the Dexter EZ Flex kit and wet bolts greasable spring hanger bolts. It makes a handling difference. The wet bolts have grease fittings.

I did the whole installation myself. You will need jacks, jack stands, and I went to Harbor Freight and purchased tools for removing the old rusted spring bolts as you will need to be able to push them out. And a tool to reinstall.

[RCMAN46]

Another quick check you can do. Measure distance between the spring hangers. Measure at the frame.


Do both a lateral along the frame and a diamond from left front to right rear as an example. All measufements should be within 1\8 of an inch. Check that the center hanger is exacty between the end hangers.

[jmtandem]

Ok, I gave it up on that idea and started running all my tires TV, TH at max sidewall pressures so the jury is still out on that one for me. Would love to take a poll and see what the crowd thinks Or see some concrete before and after pictures/stories. Crowd mentality, that's a good thing isn't.

I run max air pressure on trailer tires. They wear fine. Toyhaulers are interesting in that the manufacturer makes them heavy in the front to handle the toy's weights in the back. This means that the front axle and often the tongue will be much heavier empty than when the toy hauler is loaded with toys. I would move the propane tanks back to the front and work with ProPride in a solution for that and quit trying to get your axle weights equal. Load the hauler for camping and see what the numbers look like and don't worry about how they equate towing empty. You want at least 10 percent of the hauler's total loaded weight on the tongue; 13 percent is better to combat sway.

Measure your axles carefully for alignment and carry full pressure on the tires and then fully loaded try out the handling and watch the tire wear. Drive forward some distance before measuring axles to get any bind out of the system. Or you will not get accurate measurements.

[jmtandem]

What I'm trying to figure out is if the trailer axles are going to always weigh the same regardless if it's hooked up to TV or not?

The short answer is 'no'. Your TT axles weigh differently side to side and both axles rarely weight the same. And that is before you hitch it to the tow vehicle. Typically the side with a slide out or refrigerator is the heavier side. Also, the equalizer between the axles is really not that much of an equalizer. If you weigh each axle you will likely find a difference in weights. And then when you tension the weight distribution bars on the hitch it adds more axle weight.

Your tire wear issues really have nothing to do with the hitch. Get on line and check how to check axle alignment. A string, a tape measure and a spare hitch ball carefully centered in the tongue and then measure to the same place on each axle near the brakes. Be very careful measuring. Do it for both axles. Then measure the distance between axles in the same places on each. All those numbers should be about one eighth an inch or less variation. Then be sure the axles are the same distance on both sides and be sure the axles have the required arch or curvature in the middle. A perfectly straight axle without the slight arch is not correct. Good luck.

[Ozlander]

A quick check on alignment is to measure the distance between the tires on each side.
I think they should be within 1/8" or better.

[Ozlander]

A quick check on alignment is to measure the distance between the tires on each side.
I think they should be within 1/8" or better.

[budwich]

I think "normal cupping" is more likely a result of "suspension issues". In trailering, that points to springs as shocks are usually not installed.
Perhaps your "new setup" has placed a different load on your springs resulting in the "issue".

[larryd78610]

jmtandem wrote:

Here's the question. Would it be correct to say that if my WD system is not setup correctly, getting the TT axles weighed while hooked up, with the WD applied, theres a possibility my axle weights would likely be different then when there is no WD applied?

Not sure exactly what you are asking but a properly set up weight distribution hitch will transfer about 20-25 percent of the redistributed tongue weight back to the trailer axles.

Also, your title "ProPride 1400 Not so Good" is misleading as to your issues. The ProPride has nothing to do with your axle alignment problems.

Changed title 😮

What I'm trying to figure out is if the trailer axles are going to always weigh the same regardless if it's hooked up to TV or not?

Seems if TT tailup/taildown while hooked up to TV could change weight reading on each TT axle wouldn't that also apply to WD (regardless whether it's setup correctly or not) doing similar changes to TT front/rear axle weight.

Technically when the trailer is weighed setting by it self the axle weights are static.
But when the TV is connected and WD is applied. Don't axle weights become a dynamic weight measurement?

I guess my hypothesis is if it was possible for the trailer to roll down the road on it's own for 50K miles the wear on the tires and forces on the axles are going to be different then when towed that exact some 50K miles?
Does it all mater? That's what I'm trying to find out.

My TT tires went from what appeared like an under inflated very even wear pattern. (running load inflation table pressures)
See below




to cupping and scalping kind of wear that's coming on strong in less the 1700 miles.

Note: The replacement tires are different, one size up. Went from LRE to LRF.
OEM were Akuret ST235/80R16 the ones below are Carilsie ST235/85R16

Other note is since the OEM tires appeared to wear as under inflated the new tires I've been running at Max psi as marked on the sidewall. Part of the reason for that was every time I called a tire manufacture and asked for load inflation tables Michelin, Akuret gave me a hard time about running pressures based on load inflation tables. I was told that only apples to Semi trucks, Semi trailers and MH. When I contacted Carlisle they flat out told me it would void the warranty.

Ok, I gave it up on that idea and started running all my tires TV, TH at max sidewall pressures so the jury is still out on that one for me. Would love to take a poll and see what the crowd thinks Or see some concrete before and after pictures/stories. Crowd mentality, that's a good thing isn't. :h

Not a great picture but it's all I got right now.


This one looks almost like the tread is being ripped right off the tire



My weight has always been under GVW
TT GVW = 98% of rating (trying to get that down more)
Tires exceed GVW 25.7%
Axles exceed GVW 16%

Other then figuring out why tires inflated to manufactures load inflation tables would show "even" but under inflated wear pattern, everything was fine.

Then I removed a 14K Equal-i-zer hitch with 15,000 miles that was showing some wear and installed a ProPride 14K hitch and my weird tire wear pattern showed up, which is why I titled the post ProPride 14K hitch not working.

To be fair with the ProPride folks Sean has been more then helpful in trying to resolve the issues with me. I starting to think bad things started happening when I moved my Propane tanks to the rear of the trailer in order to get the ProPride hitch installed, Also moved the spare tire to the rear of the trailer to keep the tongue weight down some.



Obviously I've hosed myself all up. Trick is getting back to square one.

I'm wondering if my trailer is too big for the ProPride hitch and trying to get my tongue weight down to under 1400 pounds is throwing everything out of balance.

1413lbs would be 12% tongue weight but I'm wondering of due to the fact our TT is a Toy Hauler (TH) if I'd be better with about 15% tongue weight which puts me over the capacity of the ProPride hitch. Because it's a TH there's a lot of distance between the tongue and the front TT axle.
Just for info we use the TH garage as an office and we don't off road with our rig.

I can not seem to crank the WD up enough to get my TV front end back down where it should be. The closest I can get it based on Black Cat scales is removing 40lbs from the front end while connected. This requires cranking the ProPride WD up 10" which seems like a lot. The spring bars are not interfering with the frame but just feels like too much force is being applied and it just isn't getting it done.
The first run we made was the worst ride I ever had. Our F-350 SRW was getting tossed all over the road.

TV = 2014 F-350 6.7L Diesel SRW GVWR=11.5K GCWR=23.5K, FGAWR=5600 RGAWR=7000
TH = 2013 Dutchmen Rubicon 2900 GVWR 12K FGAWR 7K RGAWR 7K

Current tires = Carlisle Radial Trail Rh Trailer ST235/85R16 LRF 3960lbs at 95 PSI
Last BlackCat weighin
TV Weights measured loaded for road not connected to TH
Front axle 5400
Rear axle 4080
Hooked up loaded
Front axle 5360
Rear 5660

TH weights when hitched up and WD applied
Total TH 11780
Front axle =5360
Rear axle = 5660

The last item I'll add in here is from day one our TH frame and suspension looked like it had spent a couple years in the snow bank rusting up before the axles were mounted and the trailer built. Something we missed in the pick up day inspection. These are Lippert 7K axles with Lipperts Equa-Flex suppension by Trailair, nice huh :R



I checked frame numbers and the frame was built 11/15, axles dated same but the suspension looks pretty bad. Axles looked fine. they were also dated 11/15 TH is was built 02/13

Hopefully this weekend I'm going to get some measurements on the axle location relative to the frame but it's setting in a site that required lots of turning to get into so I'm wondering if in order to get decent measurements I need to pull up the jacks and roll it back and forth 20ft or so to straighten out the axle alignment. Thanks

[jmtandem]

Here's the question. Would it be correct to say that if my WD system is not setup correctly, getting the TT axles weighed while hooked up, with the WD applied, theres a possibility my axle weights would likely be different then when there is no WD applied?

Not sure exactly what you are asking but a properly set up weight distribution hitch will transfer about 20-25 percent of the redistributed tongue weight back to the trailer axles.

Also, your title "ProPride 1400 Not so Good" is misleading as to your issues. The ProPride has nothing to do with your axle alignment problems.