Refused entry with a truck & camper

FROM THE CHEVROLET SILVERADO WEBSITE - on the website there seem to be guides that can be downloaded that further explain the ratings of the various trucks.

QUESTION? Does Chevrolet put some sort of tag on each vehicle with the weight rating of each vehicle with the following weight designations?

http://www.chevrolet.com/truck-life/trailering-and-towing-guide

QUOTE - COPY & PASTE

Finding the right truck

When it comes to trailering capability, we have a truck for every need. The chart below shows the maximum amount of weight each Chevy truck can confidently trailer, so you can find the right truck for your lifestyle.

Download Trailering Guide

Worth the weight

Discover the Maximum Trailer Weight Rating† needed to tow different types of cargo and see all Chevy trucks that fit the bill. When determining the total weight of a trailer and cargo, include the weight of additional passengers and optional equipment (driver weight and base equipment are already included).

Trailering Basics

Whether it’s payload, torque, or horsepower, finding the right pickup truck starts with understanding what you need your truck to do for you. Here’s a list of common trailering terms you should know.

GROSS COMBINED WEIGHT RATING (GCWR)

Represents the maximum weight of both your loaded vehicle (Chevy truck or SUV) and your loaded trailer combined.

CURB WEIGHT

The weight of an empty vehicle, without payload or driver, with standard equipment, fuel, coolant and oil. It is also known as the vehicle weight.

GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING (GVWR)

The actual weight of the entire Chevy truck or SUV and its contents, including fuel and occupants.

AXLE RATIO

The relationship between driveshaft revolutions per minute and the rear axle’s revolutions per minute. The most powerful and efficient ratio for each individual is determined by the frequency and the usual weight being hauled.

GROSS TRAILER WEIGHT

The weight of a loaded trailer.

TRAILER TONGUE WEIGHT

The amount of weight put on the trailer tongue to keep it balanced for a safer driving experience.

Why did you post something about water tanks.

What I did was a "Copy & Paste" of the definitions of various weight classifications so those with any interest might see what these things mean. I did not write this - I did a "Copy & Paste" of a definition!

There are many ratings used with regard to weight of vehicles - I posted some of them.

The reason I do this is to try to figure out exactly what Mexico means by their law and how it is being interpreted by the guys at the border. If they are misunderstanding what the weight tags on the vehicles says then they could be turning back vehicles that are totally legal because there is a language (or whatever other barrier) because they do not understand what the letters on the tag mean. Why is that so difficult to get across here? Does anyone understand it? Can someone please put it into words that are better at explaining than mine seem incapable of doing?

Talk about mixing apples and oranges! Why did you post something about water tanks. I have yet to see a PU truck that has a water tank or other MH amenities. All that nonsense about CCC and GVWR just confuses the issue. Of course they are not talking about the capacity of the truck. (payload). Maybe my posts were short but of what use are definitions of classes of big trucks? I just went out and checked the GVWR tag on my 09 Silverado. It is 7000 lbs. My truck is a typical half ton. Usually the mfrs. offer an option of a slightly higher gross weight. Probably different tires and maybe slightly heavier springs. Thus the 7700 lb. But that truck would still be what is commonly called a half ton( 10 series GM, F150 Ford). Brian: Your posts are offering too much info on this subject and are way off topic. Most of that info is from the USA and means nothing in Mexico. Just as in Canada and the USA Mexico publishes laws and regulations. When there are changes they do not take effect until they are officially published. Chris offered phone numbers and I think an email address. If you are so hell bent on getting to the truth call them. In any country customs is very complicated and often the details will NOT be on line. Customs brokers have rooms full of these regs. They also PAY to
subscribe to an online service. There usually is a procedure where a broker can apply for a ruling on importing an item that may not be listed or does not appear to fall into a specific category. Pages of USA information is meaningless.

Again - thanks for all the help and web address references.

I am asking questions. What numbers are the guys at the border using to turn people around?

Are there numbers on a plate or something on these vehicles?

What do the numbers on the vehicle say?

You say there is a GVWR tag on your Silverado that says 7,000. Is this the number the Mexican border guys are using? Are they looking at GVWR?

So that is my question and the reason for showing the various different letter designation abbreviations for various weight classifications of pickup trucks in the US.

Are the guys at the border seeing GCWR or GVWR and misunderstanding what these numbers mean?

The law explicitly states “Capacidad de Carga”. What does that mean? What does Mexico mean by that term?

It would seem that is the capacity the vehicle is rated to carry - would it not seem so?

If there is a tag on a pickup that says GCWR could it be possible they are reading that and thinking the "C" stands for “Capacidad de Carga”? Because it doesn't which is why I posted all those other letter combinations and tried to explain what they mean in the US.

I cannot find a pickup with a cargo capacity to exceeds 7716.17 lbs - can you?

So I am trying to find answers. And yes - I am carrying on an email conversation with someone at the other end of that email address Chris found. I am trying to get them to explain what the law means. They want me to send a picture of my rig - which is not the question I asked them. As most here know it can be very confusing to try to communicate in English and it can be even more difficult to communicate in Spanish when your language ability is very limited - in both languages apparently in my case.

So exactly what does the wording of the law say and exactly what are the guys at the border seeing that is making them turn these vehicles back? That is what I am trying to find out.

I do not even have a pickup. I am doing this to try to help other people. It is what I do. That is what these forums are supposed to be about. I am always amazed by how many people are so negative and offer no help at all but continue to comment about the efforts of others who are trying to help. That is at least one of the reasons so many people quit participating in these forums. You are not helping so why bother.

JerBear wrote:
I have read thru most of these posts and I am still scratching my head and looking for a reason why 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are not allowed. What is their reason?

Simple: Control.

If the USA imposes the same restrictions coming into the USA, the policy will change. Balance.

Countries and borders require balance and fairness.

It isn't that way today on the southern border, which is why everyone has an opinion of how to correct it.

This "no trucks" policy is just one example of that struggle and how countries take shots at each other. Unfortunately, you guys are caught in the crossfire.

Hopefully this kind of stuff gets resolved soon ;)

I have read thru most of these posts and I am still scratching my head and looking for a reason why 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are not allowed. What is their reason? Am I missing something? When we were in Mexico in 2015 we met a couple from Canada that had a truck camper and they were charged 8000 pesos at the border (Los Indios?)because it was considered cargo. An expensive crossing for sure. If they are worried about leaving the camper in Mexico put a deposit on the camper as well as the truck. We will be watching this thread with great interest as we are planning on travelling to Mexico this winter with our 1 ton dually and truck camper.

Talk about mixing apples and oranges! Why did you post something about water tanks. I have yet to see a PU truck that has a water tank or other MH amenities. All that nonsense about CCC and GVWR just confuses the issue. Of course they are not talking about the capacity of the truck. (payload). Maybe my posts were short but of what use are definitions of classes of big trucks? I just went out and checked the GVWR tag on my 09 Silverado. It is 7000 lbs. My truck is a typical half ton. Usually the mfrs. offer an option of a slightly higher gross weight. Probably different tires and maybe slightly heavier springs. Thus the 7700 lb. But that truck would still be what is commonly called a half ton( 10 series GM, F150 Ford). Brian: Your posts are offering too much info on this subject and are way off topic. Most of that info is from the USA and means nothing in Mexico. Just as in Canada and the USA Mexico publishes laws and regulations. When there are changes they do not take effect until they are officially published. Chris offered phone numbers and I think an email address. If you are so hell bent on getting to the truth call them. In any country customs is very complicated and often the details will NOT be on line. Customs brokers have rooms full of these regs. They also PAY to
subscribe to an online service. There usually is a procedure where a broker can apply for a ruling on importing an item that may not be listed or does not appear to fall into a specific category. Pages of USA information is meaningless.

Moisheh

Here is what the only law I can find says…………

Restricciones de los vehiculos que pueden importarse temporalmente

Restrictions on vehicles that may be temporarily imported:

Vehiculos que tengan una capacidad de carga maxima de hasta tres y media toneladas de peso (3 y ½ toneladas que equivalen a 7716.17 libras)

Vehicles having a maximum load capacity of up to three and a half tonnes of weight (3 and 1/2 tonnes equivalent to 7716.17 pounds).


To me that means the weight that can be carried by the pickup truck – which to me also would be what we call CCC ( Cargo Carry Capacity) which to me is similar to the words in the Mexican law where they use their term Capacidad de Carga.


Previously above in this thread I posted some other terms used to classify weight in motor vehicles – used in the US – would these then be some of what is written on the label of the pickup truck or on the registration?

The gross combined weight rating or gross combination weight rating (GCWR), also referred to as the gross combination mass (GCM), gross train weight (GTW), or maximum authorised mass (MAM), is the maximum allowable combined mass of a road vehicle, the passengers and cargo in the tow vehicle, plus the mass of the trailer and cargo in the trailer. This rating is set by the vehicle manufacturer.

UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight) is the weight of the unit as built at the factory. with full fuel tanks, engine oil and coolants. The UVW does not include cargo, fresh water, LP gas, occupants or dealer-installed accessories.

CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity), used Sept 2000 – present, means GVWR minus the following: UVW, full fresh (potable) water weight (including that for the water heater) full LP gas weight, and SCWR. Note: Remember that optional accessories or equipment not included in the UVW will take up part of the Cargo Carrying Capacity.


Here is a Ford website where they list all the model pickups they make.


https://www.ford.com/trucks/super-duty/2017/models/f350-king-ranch/?gnav=vhpnav


There are far too many numbers and combination of numbers for me to provide them here – you can go to the website to see what they all say.


First they list numbers for conventional towing where they show the GCWR of all the various different models. Note about what GCWR means. It is not CCC. Depending on the model these will show a GCWR of anywhere from 19,500 to 41,800 lbs.

They show another number which I am not sure what it means. They start at 12,600 and go up to 21,000. Is this the CCC or the total weight of the trailer?

Conventional Towing - Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight Ratings (lbs.)

MAX GCWR (lbs.) F-250 4x2 F-250 4x4 F-350 4x2 F-350 4x4 F-250 4x2 F-250 4x4 F-350 4x2 F-350 4x4 F-250 4x2 F-250 4x4 F-350 4x2 F-350 4x4 F-450 4x4

Then there is Gooseneck towing which I assume would be 5th wheel. Again they show GCWR of from 19,500 to 41,800 and another number I assume is the maximum trailer weight they can pull – or is it the CCC? These seem to range from 12,400 up to 32,000 lbs.

5th Wheel Gooseneck Towing - Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight Ratings (lbs.)

MAX GCWR (lbs.) F-250 4x2 F-250 4x4 F-350 4x2 F-350 4x4 F-250 4x2 F-250 4x4 F-350 4x2 F-350 4x4 F-250 4x2 F-250 4x4 F-350 4x2 F-350 4x4 F-450 4x4

Then they show this Maximum Payload Package which to me would be the CCC – but I have no idea where this information would be available to the border people. Note the first column I show below says GCWR and in this case it is 14,000 lbs. That is for the biggest and most heavy duty F-450 Ford makes. Then there are these other numbers which I can only assume are the CCC for these specific vehicles. But I do not know. I do not see the term CCC used anywhere here but they do say Maximum Payload which may or may not mean the amount of weight the model is rated to carry. To me this would be CCC but I am guessing.

Maximum Payload Package Selector (lbs.)
Regular Cab Super Cab Crew Cab
GVWR (lbs)........ 141.5" WB...... 147.9" WB...... 164.1" WB...... 159.7" WB..... 175.9" WB
Max 14,000...... 7,630..... 4,620...... 7,200...... 4,470..... 6,950

So there are a lot of numbers and possible combinations of numbers. What I do not know is which numbers the border people are looking for and what numbers they are looking at when they reject a specific vehicle.

But does the Mexican term “Capacidad de Carga” mean the same as the US term CCC? Is that what they are looking for? Are they looking at GCWR and thinking it means “Capacidad de Carga”? Does Fords term “Maximum Payload” mean the same as CCC?

If the written law says the “Capacidad de Carga” and seems to be 7716.17 lbs and we then look at the number the Ford website says is their “Maximum Payload” on their biggest pickup is 7,630 lbs it would seem this number is under the number Mexico is looking for. So my questions have to do with whether or not there is some confusion about the definitions of the terms and what the border people might be seeing that turns on the red light.


F-450 DRW 4x4
Maximum Conventional Towing 21,000 lbs.
Maximum 5th Wheel Towing 27,500 lbs.
Maximum Gooseneck Towing 32,500 lbs.
Maximum Payload 7,630 lbs.
Maximum GVWR 14,000 lbs.

They are focusing on PICK UP TRUCKS only!

Nothing else!

That is when they check the weight of the PICK UP TRUCK!

They do not care if it has a CAMPER SHELL on it or not it is a PICK UP TRUCK!

Big MOTOR HOMES they could care less what they weigh, they are not PICK UP TRUCKS!

navegator

PS the big letters are not shouts I do that to emphasize the words.

Thanks once again for always referencing the source from which you get your very useful information - website - individual contact etc. We could never track the source of the information down without your in-depth assistance.


Would you translate for all of us the exact words in English contained in the email Chris received and explain to us exactly what those words say?

BUENAS TARDES,
LE COMENTAMOS QUE EFECTIVAMENTE EXISTE UN LIMITE PARA VEHICULOS QUE PESEN MAS DE 7,716 LBS O 3.5 TONELADAS.

What does the exact law say?

How is the law being interpreted by border crossing people?

Thanks again for always tracking down and providing all the useful info directly from the websites you always list in your answers.

Navegator -- Yep, curiously, the problem seems to reside in just pick up trucks. Also, the problem seems to occur at random for various people. What I do know about Mike's and Terri's truck is that it is fairly new, and they have been to the Baja of Mexico with no problems crossing over. The Baja is the subject of their new book for publication. But now they are trying to cross from the US to the Mexico mainland; since purchasing the truck, I don't know if this particular vehicle has been on the mainland before and would need to be considered a new entry at the border for mainland Mexico; therefore, the red flag would go up. I'll check old pages of their Rolling Homes media issues to see for sure. This is a head scratcher.

Followed an F-450 through the red/green Aduana lights at Garita 2 Tijuana last Friday. Oregon license plate. We parted ways on the autopista as I was driving faster. A bubble fender job, with a slide-in camper. He didn't get the red light.