350 HP ICE vs. 350 HP Diesel?

rgatijnet1 wrote:

JetAonly wrote:
Also, FWIW there are several 350HP diesels. In Cummins probably a B and a C motor. There is also a 370ISL. Then there is at least one Cat, a C7, maybe the 3126 also?

If we are going to change engines, there is a new supercharged 6.2 hemi due out this year. It will be close to 680-700HP and will probably smoke the tire on any vehicle up any hill. It might be available in the Ram 1500. 6.2 Dodge hemi :B

Now that would be something! A detuned version of that with a little less boost would be amazing in a heavy GVWR stripped chassis.

Daveinet wrote:
The reason no one looks at torque to weight ratios is because it doesn't tell you anything. Fact is, at one point in my life I could leg press over 1000 lbs. So hook me up to a bicycle peddle and let me power your RV.

For it to have any meaning at all, you have to factor in RPM. Any mount of torque can be achieved by gearing. In first gear, I'm putting over 12,000 ft-lbs off the line on my front axle and 6000 ft-lbs of torque once the TC couples fully. I shift out at 50 mph. Whats in your wallet?

I've said it and you've said it. Many others have said it on other threads in the past but some are just not going to get the simple fact that Torque can be multiplied through gearing. It's pretty pointless to keep saying it but what the heck right?

Look at the ISL and ISM engines from Cummins. The different power levels offered only differ in HP, the TQ rating stays the same. Now they obviously must be complete fools right since the torque rating is all that matters?

Oh, also... the Gas engine will start right up in single digit weather :p

I appears that the consensus is that if everything is stacked in favor of the diesel engine, it will beat the gas engine. :B

JumboJet wrote:
A few weeks ago I traveled 1250 miles at a gross weight of near 25,000 lbs pulling a gooseneck trailer with a Case 450B dozer through the hills of PA, MD, WV, VA, TN, and AR. Bring your 400 HP Hemi and try to keep up. I'll give you a 50 mile head start over that same route and bet you $1,000 that if neither of us exceed 65 mph I will complete the trip a minimum of 1hour ahead of you.

You are going to have to put a lot more money, because it will cost more than that in fuel. But I would gladly stomp all over it. Just to make sure you know what you are dealing with, I can pull 18K lbs up a 6% grade at 80 mph. Your gooseneck trailer is also going to roll easier than a full time 4WD with 3 differentials turning. While you are restricting to 65 as top speed, you will need to lift that restriction on steep grades. Hmm, I wonder what it would be like to travel 1200 miles and never exceed 65. That would be the most difficult aspect.

A few weeks ago I traveled 1250 miles at a gross weight of near 25,000 lbs pulling a gooseneck trailer with a Case 450B dozer through the hills of PA, MD, WV, VA, TN, and AR. Bring your 400 HP Hemi and try to keep up. I'll give you a 50 mile head start over that same route and bet you $1,000 that if neither of us exceed 65 mph I will complete the trip a minimum of 1hour ahead of you.

PastorCharlie wrote:

wny_pat wrote:

tinkerer wrote:
the hemi has a lot of power but is constantly hunting for right gear because it's torque curve is small. I really don't care what other say about gassers as I go by the seat of my pants and the diesel wins hands down, JMHO.;)

And there in lays the answer! The torque curve of a diesel covers a much wider RPM range that the gas engine does. The diesel requires less shifting when going up a hill because of the wide torque curve.

Why do they put 20 plus gears in the diesel rigs?

Because they are moving 80,000 lbs. mile after mile.

I have always wondered why my Cummins powered Dodge would outpull a similar loaded gasoline powered pickup while going up a steep hill. I must have just been lucky.

When most compare a gas engine to a diesel they are not comparing apples to apples. To make the comparison more accurate remove the turbo charger from the diesel or add one to the gas to get a more apple to apple comparison.

In the past turbo chargers on gas engines were not very reliable. In the future that may change and we may see more gas engines in medium truck use.

The reason no one looks at torque to weight ratios is because it doesn't tell you anything. Fact is, at one point in my life I could leg press over 1000 lbs. So hook me up to a bicycle peddle and let me power your RV.

For it to have any meaning at all, you have to factor in RPM. Any mount of torque can be achieved by gearing. In first gear, I'm putting over 12,000 ft-lbs off the line on my front axle and 6000 ft-lbs of torque once the TC couples fully. I shift out at 50 mph. Whats in your wallet?

OK.... We have owned 2 Dodge pick-ups, one a 360 gas and one a 360 Cummins. We pulled the same trailer with both, and hands down, the Diesel out performed the gas engine in all areas. Both had the same transmission, same body style and bed size and rear end gearing. I had the Diesel on a Dyno 3 times. Guess what, the top HP reading was at 3,250 rpm, which the computer limited the fuel to. The max toque was between 1400, and 1650 rpm for the diesel. The gas was rated at a higher HP than the diesel. Granted, the diesel had a Dr. Performance Phase III system installed on it, and it made a great difference in both performance and fuel mileage. Empty, the diesel was a Real Hot Rod!! This is a real world comparison of the same size engines, anyone who has had a diesel, will go with the diesel, but you do have to pay for it!