ccc

lbligh wrote:
GGROTZ,

Follow the link below to read exactly how CCC is calculated and what is included. Too important to listen to some that might be providing bad information.

Safe travels.

http://www.fulltime-rving.com/Cargo_Carrying_Capacity.html

In my opinion, a poorly written article. (More about that, at the bottom) However, the regulations (not laws) changed in 2008. The OP's rig is a 2005, so the old rules were used to calculate the CCC for his coach.

The old RVIA rules were

CCC = GVWR - UVW - propane - water - 154 * sleeping positions

UVW is the weight of the motorhme as built at the factory with full fuel, engine oil and coolants

That is the basis of the 2005 Pace Arrows 37a's ccc of 935 pounds.

Most RV's have more than 2 sleeping positions; lets say it has n sleeping positions. Then 154n - actual weight of occupants can be added to the 935. Carrying less than a full load of water can also increase the amount of other "stuff." But, don't forget that the contents of the grey and black water tanks are cargo and counts against the CCC.

About the article:

It starts by telling us the rules have changed, there is now an OCCC. It doesn't tell us that pertains to motorhomes and not trailers. Nor does it tell us there is a new CCC that pertains to trailers.

The article tells us:

The new OCCC label calculates the average 150 pound belted, seated passenger seat, plus the weight of fresh water cargo. This total cannot exceed the GVWR of the manufacturer.

Cargo weight includes the weight of the battery, propane, water, furniture, appliances, and all the stuff we have in our RVs.

Battery, propane, furniture, and standard appliances are not part of the cargo. Under the new regulations, water is part of the cargo as are the occupants. And since the occupants are part of the cargo, the number of sleeping positions or belted seating positions is not used at all.

Then the article "shows" how to calculate CCC and use the old rules. At the start of this portion the article states:

The Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC) of an RV is the GVWR less the empty weight, the weight of the full water tank, the weight of the full propane tanks and the sleeping capacity (My emphasis.)

And in step 5 the article states:

Subtract the weight of the seating capacity weight rating (SCWR) (150 pounds times the number of seating positions) (My emphasis.)

A poorly written article.

What is the new OCCC, which in now required to be posted on motorhomes

OCCC = GVWR - UVW - propane

The commentaries I have read state that propane is considered cargo, but the NHTSA regulations clearly state: ...the weight of full propane tanks must be included in the RV's UVW…


What is the difference between OCCC and the old CCC? Fresh water now counts as cargo as do all occupants.

i mentioned there is a new CCC.

new CCC = GVWR - UVW - propane

Looks the same as OCCC. The difference is, OCCC applies to motorhomes, CCC applies to trailers, with the assumption, traveling down the road, there are no occupants in a trailer.

How did "belted seat positions" get into the regulation? As the regulations was first put forth, NHTSA wanted to subtract 150 times belted seat positions; RVIA wanted to keep the old 150 times sleeping positions. (RVIA didn't object to 150 as opposed to their previous 154.) That was resolved by counting occupants as cargo.

Sources: 49 CFR 571.110 as found on www.law.cornell.edu

and Federal Register Volume 72, Number 232

That is a lot of technical reading. Note: Although UVW is used in the regulation, UVW is not in the list of definitions for the regulation. I used the commonly understood definition.

Tom

On edit: Insert 'not' in the last note to give the sentence the proper meaning.

Scott,
I do agree with you with respect to the calculations needed to determine the available ccc. However, in the case of my specific motorhome, the calculation of the base numbers takes into consideration many different factors - and the 'weakest link' in all of the items that were included happened to be the tires. I found this only after extensive research. The numbers posted by the RV maker on the vehicle identification plate must have a valid basis. Mine happened to be tires!! For others, it may be the brakes, the axle, the chassis or some other element of the thousands of components in a modern motorhome.

'Your mileage may vary!!'

lbligh wrote:
GGROTZ,

Follow the link below to read exactly how CCC is calculated and what is included. Too important to listen to some that might be providing bad information.

Safe travels.

http://www.fulltime-rving.com/Cargo_Carrying_Capacity.html

That has never been more true than with this thread. (ie, Some very bad info here..)

When I purchased our present rig, I was not too happy with the CCC. SO...I started digging to find out the basis of the figures.
After MUCH discussion with Spartan (chassis) and Rexhall (coach) plus calls to the makers of the axles and brakes to get their numbers, it turns out the actual basis of the ccc was the el-cheapo load rated 'G' tires ordered for the chassis!! The chassis, the axles, the brakes and other components had higher allowable capacity!! THEREFOR...with an upgrade to 'H' rated tires, I increased the true ccc greatly!!
FWIW - the fronts were OK weightwise, but the rears were the problem - In my case, the Goodyear 22.5 'G' rating is 5780 in dual configuration, 'H' is 6750 lbs. So the four replaced tires improved my rated capacity by 3880 lbs - but the tires are now more than the axle rating, so I now use the axle rating as my maximum - and stay well under it!!

PLEASE - this is my specific situation - do your own research about your own rig and make an informed decision!!

GGROTZ,

Follow the link below to read exactly how CCC is calculated and what is included. Too important to listen to some that might be providing bad information.

Safe travels.

http://www.fulltime-rving.com/Cargo_Carrying_Capacity.html

For a 2005 37+' gas coach look for one built on the Workhorse W24. The W24 is a 24,000# chassis. If your Pace Arrow was on the optional W24 chassis it's CCC would be 2935#s.

-Tom

CCC includes the number of people it sleeps times 150 lbs. Running with half water will help but not much else you can do.

The ccc is based on full fuel, fresh water, and propane, and nothing else.
If you and the missus weigh 350 together, that leaves less than 600 ponds before you have even loaded a dish or a pan or a towel...
Running with the water near empty might give you another 500 pounds...

Best bet is going to be to weigh the coach, and see where reality really is, and go from there. You wouldn't be the first RVer to run overloaded, nor the last