Ford E350 V10 shifting

Alta Volunteer wrote:
When I bought the thing it was an absolute dog even with 4:56 gears - it took forever to get to 55 mph on level ground.

Hmmmm ... there must have been something wrong with your chassis then. :h

My ~11,800 lb. 2005 24 foot Itasca E450 performance is nothing like that. Especially with Tow/Haul mode invoked such that the TorqueShift stays longer in each gear during acceleration - our small Class C really jumps from a stop and pulls strong going up grades if I tap into it's horsepower versus RPM curve. Some folks even argue that, since a Class C essentially heavily loads the E450 chassis all the time (unlike delivery truck applications), that the tranny should be left in Tow/Haul mode all the time. I might agree with that.

In and around Death Valley the long uphill grades have presented no problems whatsoever at full speeds - however, that is when not towing.

I had Mike at 5 star create a custom down load for me - he's the one that told me the thing skips fourth when downshifting by design. It helped for programming issues. But it still needed to be able to breath to develop enough HP/torque to pull the load in fourth. It is really a pleasure to cruise up a grade in 5th-lock up, or 4th that previously caused it to go straight to third, but with out the SCT download, my other mods still probably wouldn't have completely corrected this. In 2011, Ford went to the six speed trans for the F series (6R140) and Ive heard its a big improvement.

On milage, I get a little better than pre-mods (almost 2 mpg) when driving conservatively which is to be expected anytime you allow your engine to develop power with less effort, and a lot worse when I tap into the previously unavailable power. Its a choice I like to have rather than being stuck with Ford's dictates, but that said, it appears to be an expensive option, as I tend to use what's available. For me its about performance and not economy - just my preference. Like the 640 hp small block chevy in my shop....

I have a 2011 chassis E-350 with the V-10 and have encountered none of the"issues" you described. I can assure you Ford did not program the their computer to skip 4th gear. I think you may have been able to achieve the exact same results by simply having the local Ford dealer reflash your computer. Sometimes they get out of wack and a reflash can work wonders.

The early versions of the V-10 have a reputation for premature shifting and 5 Star tuning makes a good business correcting that but the later models, 2009-2014 are not known to have that issue. Perhaps there is a big difference between your 2010 and my 2011 V-10 but it seems unlikely. You don't mention mileage and I'd be curious to hear what it was before and after.

:h

Yes, I know there is a possible flaw in my logic, but Im a motor head and i like things performing as the should and I get to define what "as they should" means. When I bought the thing it was an absolute dog even with 4:56 gears - it took forever to get to 55 mph on level ground. Now, it just sings going up through the gears, especially in tow haul, so heading up a short uphill on-ramp, I'm entering traffic at traffic speeds, rather than hopimg for an opening or courteous driver. I also travel with family members and like to be able to keep up. My son pulls a 28' fifth wheel with an 06 F250 6.0 and now I can keep up on all but the steepest/longest grades.

I also pulled my 21' 5000lb toy hauler with a Polaris Ranger in it to Death Valley from the California side - i think on the steepest highway grades Ive ever encountered. This was a mistake I will not repeat, but I was more or less keeping up with the 28-30' E450 class c's towing nothing on the steep grades. I felt like I was abusing the vehicle when running it to 5000 rpm, regardless of the conventional wisdom that this is just fine. I dont like it and my performance mods allow me to run at lower rpm in in higher gears in "normal" conditions.

We joke about racing to the "mooring balls", having spent many years sailing in the Caribbean, but generally if we are concerned about getting a campsite, we just try to arrive around 1pm and start the cocktail hour a little early that day or go somewhere more remote.

Also on Phoenix Cruisers but off topic, I could and probably will post a long list of parts failures due to substandard materials and workmanship. Overall I am basically satisfied (you get what you pay for), but their build quality claims simply do not match my experiences. I found this site looking for more info on Dynamax units - I think a 340XL is in my near future, but more research is in order on that.

Alta Volunteer wrote:
...i achieved about a 4 second reduction in approximate 1/4 mile times (:18 vs :22)...

In an RV? Congrats, I guess. You did what you set out to do.

But seriously, I really don't understand when people complain that their V10 is underpowered in a smaller Class C. I've never been the slowest vehicle up a long grade; there's always a semi doing worse than me, and I've never lost a camp site, reserved or not, because I went 25 mph up a hill instead of 65.

I havent read this entire post so if this is repetitive I appologize

I have a 2010 PC2350 on an E450 chassis. I continually run in and out of tow/haul depending on conditions whether Im towing or not. Even so, the thing was way underpowered IMHO, the biggest problem being that it went straight to third as soon as it started up even a slight grade, so I did the following with excellent results:

1. Banks cat back system
2. K&N Air intake system (not just a filter - includes larger intake pipe)
3. SCT down load - includes code reader that stores factory setting. (Tell Mike what you are trying to accomplish and he will set you up.

As I recall I spent around $2000 for parts and did the work myself. I had to cut the old exhaust system to get it out as well. The reault was a considerable increase in pulling power and acceleration. It now has the power to pull grades in 5th, 5th TC lock up, and 4th that used to send it straight to 3rd at 5000 rpm which was completely unacceptable. The intake and exhause changes are obvious. The SCT down load changed fuel/air ratio, TC lock up, shift strategies, timing, etc.

For a little perspective, when towing my little trailer, my front axle tips the scales at 3,300lb, rear 12,100, and the trailer axle is at 2,200. I think my tongue wieght is probably around 400-500lbs.

So pulling a grade in fourth, im runnng at around 3600 rpm at 60 mph rather than just over 5000 in third, which I refused to do, so prior to the mods I would end up running around 45 to 50 max. TC lock up takes me from 2200 at 65mph to around 2700 in fifth. Ford apparently programmed these things to skip fourth when downshifting because the fifth and fourth gear ratios are somewhat close, but with these mods you can coax it into fourth and keep it there with some practice for a much more enjoyable run up long grades. I wish I could just shift into fourth like I can with third, but this works out quite well as long as you pay attention to the grades, throttle demand, and the tach.

All that said, on the way to Vail on I-70 from Utah, hauling a 2200lb trailer, it still went to third on the steeper sections. Fooling around with non-scientific experimentatin, i achieved about a 4 second reduction in approximate 1/4 mile times (:18 vs :22). The only down side is that when its pulling a grade in fourth (again something it was unable to do before) the intake is LOUD. Im going to add some sound deadening to help with this but I really dont mind since the power increase was so pleasing - far better than expected.

The E450 has 4:56 gears which helps some, but not nearly enough without the above mentioned mods, and it rides way too rough - air bags are next.

Hope this helps

pnichols wrote:

kendall69 wrote:
I will add this, the V-10 performed a WHOLE LOT BETTER with a premium synthetic oil.

I believe you're right on with that.

I started right from the get-go using Mobil 1 in my V10 Class C, but eventually upgraded to Mobil 1 Extended Performance. More $$ than straight Mobil 1, but we need the V10 to perform anywhere anytime doing anything ... and last a long time while doing it. I of course use a high end filter to go with the lubricant.

We often idle the V10 for long periods too, as even though it's an expensive way to do it ... the V10 and it's 130 amp alternator love to charge the coach batteries ultra-quietly and with no vibration inside the coach. Our hit and run style of camping makes idling the V10 an occasional very convenient and sensitive-campsite-friendly alternative to the Onan built-in or the ultra-quiet little Honda (54dB under all load conditions) portable we always bring along.

We also idle long periods for charging when the solar output doesn't cut it. We added a zero gauge cable directly from the alternator to the two group 31 AGM's. The V10 makes for a quiet generator and seems to use around 1/2 gallon an hour.

garyhaupt wrote:
I so wished I understood what you just said.

Gary ... this is off-topic but let's have a little fun:

What he just said was that a bunch of little tiny cylinders spinning fast enough burning fuel can produce as much power as fewer big cylinders spinning slower if the big cylinders are burning only the same overall amount of fuel.

Here's an example of a V16 - only 1.5 liters in size - that when spinning at over 12,000 RPM can produce 600 HP (click the video play arrow and turn your speakers up to hear the very non-RVist sound of this little but mighty motor):

http://bangshift.com/general-news/videos/hearing-test-video-is-the-brm-v16-the-best-sounding-race-motor-of-all-time/

kendall69 wrote:
I will add this, the V-10 performed a WHOLE LOT BETTER with a premium synthetic oil.

I believe you're right on with that.

I started right from the get-go using Mobil 1 in my V10 Class C, but eventually upgraded to Mobil 1 Extended Performance. More $$ than straight Mobil 1, but we need the V10 to perform anywhere anytime doing anything ... and last a long time while doing it. I of course use a high end filter to go with the lubricant.

We often idle the V10 for long periods too, as even though it's an expensive way to do it ... the V10 and it's 130 amp alternator love to charge the coach batteries ultra-quietly and with no vibration inside the coach. Our hit and run style of camping makes idling the V10 an occasional very convenient and sensitive-campsite-friendly alternative to the Onan built-in or the ultra-quiet little Honda (54dB under all load conditions) portable we always bring along.

Golden_HVAC wrote:

Trying to keep the RPM's around 2,500 - 3000 is not letting the engine work very hard. 3,600 is never going to damage even the older big V8's with pushrods. The overhead cams can take 4,000 - 5,000 RPM's because they will not have pushrod "Float" - like the older V8's.

And the piston of the 6.8L is so much smaller than my 460" V8 (7.5L with 8 cylinders, so nearly 1 liter per cylinder). The V10 is only 0.68 liters per cylinder, and the pistons stroke is very short, so higher RPM's are OK.

Fred.

I so wished I understood what you just said.


Gary Haupt