Ford E450 sway bar?,s

chag67 wrote:

ron.dittmer wrote:
A heavy duty rear stabilizer bar reduces the "lean" or "rocking" side to side, much like a boat rocks or leans side-to-side when in water.

The rear trac bar reduces the horizontal side-to-side rear tail wagging. A rear trac bar is especially beneficial when towing a trailer or boat where there is significant tongue weight for they like to encourage more of that horizontal tail-wagging motion. Whether towing or not, a motor home with a long rear overhang will benefit from a rear trac bar, much more than a rig with a short rear overhang because a long overhang can act much in the same manner as if towing a large trailer.

Our rig has a long rear overhang in proportion to the wheel base, hence it was recommended we get a rear trac bar.

Does this make sense?

That makes perfect sense and sounds like I will definitely need one too. I have a long over hang on the rear plus I will be pulling an enclosed trailer at times.

Is rear trac bar as easy an installation as the Hellwig sway bars?

I also saw on Blue Ox website that the rear trac bar will not work with an air bag system. I have an air bag system on my rig.

I wish I could answer your last questions, but I cannot for I just don't know. I do recall the people who installed both a Roadmaster rear heavy duty stabilizer bar and a Henderson trac bar together on my rig said they had to do something creative. I think it had to do with sharing a common mounting point. But that was 10 years ago and so my memory is fuzzy.

ron.dittmer wrote:
A heavy duty rear stabilizer bar reduces the "lean" or "rocking" side to side, much like a boat rocks or leans side-to-side when in water.

The rear trac bar reduces the horizontal side-to-side rear tail wagging. A rear trac bar is especially beneficial when towing a trailer or boat where there is significant tongue weight for they like to encourage more of that horizontal tail-wagging motion. Whether towing or not, a motor home with a long rear overhang will benefit from a rear trac bar, much more than a rig with a short rear overhang because a long overhang can act much in the same manner as if towing a large trailer.

Our rig has a long rear overhang in proportion to the wheel base, hence it was recommended we get a rear trac bar.

Does this make sense?

That makes perfect sense and sounds like I will definitely need one too. I have a long over hang on the rear plus I will be pulling an enclosed trailer at times.

Is rear trac bar as easy an installation as the Hellwig sway bars?

I also saw on Blue Ox website that the rear trac bar will not work with an air bag system. I have an air bag system on my rig.

chag67 wrote:

ron.dittmer wrote:
It's too bad Ford doesn't supply RV-outfitted chassis to RV manufactures with all the heavy-duty stuff to begin with. That would make them right from the start.

Every motor home on a Ford chassis, regardless of model year, but especially prior to 2008, should have heavy duty sway (stabilizer) bars, given the chassis is always being driven at max-load conditions.

Our little 24' rig in my signature drove like a drunken sailor when brand new. After our first trip, I had heavy duty front & rear stabilizer bars, heavy duty shocks, rear trac bar, and Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer installed. It has been a joy to drive the rig ever since.....10 years so far of joy-riding instead of hell-riding.

What does the rear trac bar do differently than rear stabilizer bar?

A heavy duty rear stabilizer bar reduces the "lean" or "rocking" side to side, much like a boat rocks or leans side-to-side when in water.

The rear trac bar reduces the horizontal side-to-side rear tail wagging. A rear trac bar is especially beneficial when towing a trailer or boat where there is significant tongue weight for they like to encourage more of that horizontal tail-wagging motion. Whether towing or not, a motor home with a long rear overhang will benefit from a rear trac bar, much more than a rig with a short rear overhang because a long overhang can act much in the same manner as if towing a large trailer.

Our rig has a long rear overhang in proportion to the wheel base, hence it was recommended we get a rear trac bar.

Does this make sense?

ron.dittmer wrote:
It's too bad Ford doesn't supply RV-outfitted chassis to RV manufactures with all the heavy-duty stuff to begin with. That would make them right from the start.

Every motor home on a Ford chassis, regardless of model year, but especially prior to 2008, should have heavy duty sway (stabilizer) bars, given the chassis is always being driven at max-load conditions.

Our little 24' rig in my signature drove like a drunken sailor when brand new. After our first trip, I had heavy duty front & rear stabilizer bars, heavy duty shocks, rear trac bar, and Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer installed. It has been a joy to drive the rig ever since.....10 years so far of joy-riding instead of hell-riding.

What does the rear trac bar do differently than rear stabilizer bar?

It's too bad Ford doesn't supply RV-outfitted chassis to RV manufactures with all the heavy-duty stuff to begin with. That would make them right from the start.

Every motor home on a Ford chassis, regardless of model year, but especially prior to 2008, should have heavy duty sway (stabilizer) bars, given the chassis is always being driven at max-load conditions.

Our little 24' rig in my signature drove like a drunken sailor when brand new. After our first trip, I had heavy duty front & rear stabilizer bars, heavy duty shocks, rear trac bar, and Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer installed. It has been a joy to drive the rig ever since.....10 years so far of joy-riding instead of hell-riding.

j-d wrote:
Might rain, so I got the cardboard out, slid under with a handful of sockets, and here are the E450 sizes, through Chassis Year 2007:

Front and Rear Sway Bar Center Bushing Brackets: Metric 15MM

All parts furnished by Hellwig: SAE 3/4"

There isn't an SAE size that'll "work as 15MM" so you need that specific socket. Standard depth is fine.

You can get away with 19MM for the 3/4" but the socket should be Deep.

I always get Six Point Sockets.

So you'd need a Ratchet, two Sockets, and a Wrench.

Wrench can be an Open End, Combination (box/socket end plus an open end) or an Adjustable. 8" would be nice, but a 6" will open to 3/4".

Again, suggest 1/2" drive for the sockets. I don't like the fastener diameter much bigger than the square drive size of the socket set. The 3/4" tools will be working 1/2" fasteners, and the 15MM is driving screws that are about 7/16".

Footnote: 2008 and newer use two different sizes on the front bar center brackets, the 15MM and something larger. Common next larger'd be 17MM but I don't have a vehicle to check that on.

EDIT: Looked at the OEM rear sway bar end links I removed to install the Hellwig bar. The 3/4" or 19MM socket will remove the frame end. The bar end is 14MM but your 15MM socket'll catch it if you get a six point. Or if your open end wrench is an adjustable.

Thank you for your over and above help. I have tinkered with my motorcycle (oil change, rerouted electric lines so they weren't under the gas tank, changed spark plugs which required some engine mount stabilization, etc). I have a full set of metric and English sockets along with a torque wrench and open ended wrench. My sockets are 6 points so they should grip just fine.

It sounds like a "simple" remove the old sway bar and install the new one in it's place. I will tackle the issue after our Labor Day weekend trip but before our trip to Florida in July. Got to come up with the funding first. Spending way too much right now on the rig.

I crawled under the front end of mine to look at the front sway bar, and the rubber grommets that are pressed into the I beams are pretty much toast, but the chassis is a 2006, so I wasn't surprised. I guess I will have to spring for the hellwig bar for the front. I see they are around 225.00..... I can't imagine that a Ford dealer would charge less to fix the stock bar grommets... I might also get a new steering damper while I am at it. But there is no way I can do the front shocks... The rear ones, sure, but not the front

Easy is a relative term. If you are comfortable working with basic hand tools it isn't a problem. Go to sdtrucksprings.com look up your vehicle, scroll down toward the lower part of the page and you will find a .pdf on the install.

chag67 wrote:

stripit wrote:
The factory bars are removed and the new heavier built, thicker bars are installed.

How difficult/easy is the install? Does anyone have a link for step by step instructions or a video?

Might rain, so I got the cardboard out, slid under with a handful of sockets, and here are the E450 sizes, through Chassis Year 2007:

Front and Rear Sway Bar Center Bushing Brackets: Metric 15MM

All parts furnished by Hellwig: SAE 3/4"

There isn't an SAE size that'll "work as 15MM" so you need that specific socket. Standard depth is fine.

You can get away with 19MM for the 3/4" but the socket should be Deep.

I always get Six Point Sockets.

So you'd need a Ratchet, two Sockets, and a Wrench.

Wrench can be an Open End, Combination (box/socket end plus an open end) or an Adjustable. 8" would be nice, but a 6" will open to 3/4".

Again, suggest 1/2" drive for the sockets. I don't like the fastener diameter much bigger than the square drive size of the socket set. The 3/4" tools will be working 1/2" fasteners, and the 15MM is driving screws that are about 7/16".

Footnote: 2008 and newer use two different sizes on the front bar center brackets, the 15MM and something larger. Common next larger'd be 17MM but I don't have a vehicle to check that on.

EDIT: Looked at the OEM rear sway bar end links I removed to install the Hellwig bar. The 3/4" or 19MM socket will remove the frame end. The bar end is 14MM but your 15MM socket'll catch it if you get a six point. Or if your open end wrench is an adjustable.

chag67 wrote:
I'm positive I need them. I felt the rig move at every movement of my son in the overhead bunk. I also felt the rig move at every wind gust while parked.

Plus, traveling home, my hands were cramped and sore from having to grip the steering wheel so tight.

I don't mind paying for the Hellwig sway bars but I don't want to pay for installation if I don't have to.

Upgraded sway bars help both on the road, and also on the campsite. You'll still feel people moving around in the parked coach, but no where near as much. After all, the coach is still sitting on springs and tires.

When a Ford Class C sways, that's also an un-commanded steering input, so that's part of why upgrading is so good. Don't rule out needing a front end alignment, one that increases the spec called Caster, but there's a lot that can be done short of that, to improve the drive. Cheapest, around $10, is load the coach as for a trip, people and all, and weigh it on a CAT Scale, then adjust tire pressure to the actual axle weight. Ford chassis is VERY sensitive to front tire pressure.

I helped an RV.net member install a Hellwig rear bar on a Chevy chassis, and the upgrade satisfied him with improved driving and solved his wife's annoyance about the coach bouncing when he walked around in the parked coach.

I think about all you'd need is a 1/2" drive ratchet, a few sockets, and perhaps additionally a 3/4" wrench. An 8" adjustable wrench would probably do.

Part of the reason for 1/2" drive is the amount of torque specified for some of the fasteners.

The Hellwig parts themselves are SAE wrench/socket sizes. The fasteners you have to take out and re-install to hold the sway bar brackets to the front frame and rear axle are Metric. Harbor Freight tools are just fine for a project like sway bars, and for the home tinkerer. Their basic 1/2" socket set is about $25. Stores like Lowe's and Home Depot have individual sockets you can add for a couple Metric fasteners. The auto parts chain stores, loan tools. They're usually specialized tools, but they might also loan socket sets. Basically you buy the tool. Then use it and return it for a refund.

Would you like me to go out to our E450 and get you the wrench sizes?

I think Ron.Dittmer, posted above, can link you to an RV.net thread, where he and his brother added a rear sway bar to an E350. That would be actually a little more difficult than swapping an OEM E450 bar for a Hellwig.

Wish you were closer, I'd offer to help. I've been to Maxwell, but no business out that way for the foreseeable future.