Help with entry level diesel pushers

Great post wnytaxman

DriverMan wrote:
I've been looking at a new Forest River Berkshire and Winnebago Forza.

Since the thread was started based on our thoughts between two coaches. With your kind indulgence I'll share a few things I've found out and maybe some will find it helpful.

Since I've been on my own journey into couch-dom I found some things I thought were interesting. What I show below is based on my Private Messages - Emails & phone conversations and is in no specific order. The numbers shown are the number of different people I talk to with each coach. I also limited my contacts to coach owners with a 2016/17 coaches!

Thor Palazzo 7
Forest River Berkshire 6
Coachman Cross Country 6
Winnebago Forza 4
Newmar Ventana LE 5

What do all 28 have in common you ask? Ever one of them to the person liked their coach! I asked each one of them "would you buy the coach again"? Only 1 in 28 wasn't sure. Most did not have recurring problems once they were fixed. If there was one thing in common to many owners were slide problems. One complained they thought their coach reacted to wind and trucks buffeting them more than expected.

Every coach shown above is an "entry level diesel pusher"! What did I conclude from all these conversations?
• Find the floor plan and styling you like.
• Know going in there will be things you'll need to get fixed.
• Read the coach manual, ask questions on the forum and know how things work on your coach.
• Make sure you like what you're buying because it will make demands on your time and central nurse system.

Hope this helps

We recently had a Progressive Insurance adjuster check the damage to our awning from a sudden thunderstorm while in Mesa Verde. While he was on the roof he mentioned making sure to reseal a few seams that were cracking on our TPO roof before the rainy season starts.

Later, we were conversing and I mentioned our desire to upgrade to a DP for a possible round the country trip with our kids. He made an unsolicited comment about the problems he has seen with Winnebago's fiberglass roof system and advised to stay away from it.

He said the factory won't cover it, they claim it's a maintenance issue and that in many cases it's out of warranty. He actually stated that occasionally insurance won't cover it in some cases when it was very evident that preventive maintenance was never performed.

Just wanted to pass on professional's take on the situation.

We have had a Forest River Berkshire for six years now. There have been very few issues and those that did crop up were resolved by either the dealer or the factory. I would purchase another Berkshire if they have a floor plan and features that I was looking for. The rig has been good all the way around for us.

A bit of background to Forest River may be helpful. The Company was in bad shape after the downturn in 2008. It looked like it might close up completely. In stepped Warren Buffet and his Berkshire Hathaway Company. Now the Company is healthy and doing well with a much better reputation than what it had prior to the slowdown. You may want to check out the Forest River Owners' Group (FROG) for the experiences of others who own the Berkshires. As you may be able to guess, the origin of the model name is from the ownership of the Company.

As to buying used, yes you will avoid the heavy depreciation hit and the bugs MAY be worked out, but the odds are just as high that the gorgeous seldom used rig is a lemon that the seller can't wait to dump. Our only experience buying used almost got us killed when our used Class C lost all its brakes on I-75. No warranty can more than erase the depreciation savings so be aware that both routes have their advantages and disadvantages.

Bruce Brown wrote:

DriverMan wrote:
My thanks to all of you for your comments.

It looks to me the roof problem with Winnebago is a serious one. Such a problem could literally destroy your motorhome. An that its most likely out of warranty by that time could be financially catastrophic, or am I overstating things?

You mentioned the seal, is this something you can reasonable check on your own? And if so is it something you can fix on your own?

How often should something like this be checked, every 5 years, 10 years, what? Can I assume this is all Winnebago's and not just the entry level Forza?

Is the a deal breaker? I can't think of many things worse than a faulty roof! I can understand slide problems etc, but a roof, Not Good!

I did a Google search for "trouble with Winnebago roofs" and was surprised to find very little on the subject! Has Winnebago commented on it anywhere and what their doing about it?

Mile High gave a great explanation and illustration of the issue. Maintenance/inspection is required every 6 months I believe. The Itasca (Winnie twin) we owned was built before they went to this terrible design. For me it would be a deal breaker.

As for the repair, well...do you know anyone other than the factory that can change that roof? I sure don't. As to cost, I disagree with Mile High on that one. I currently have a 35' 5th wheel in my garage - I'm helping a friend replace his rubber roof. It's basically done, he has roughly $800 in materials. He went with the Alpha system, it's pretty nice. A few years back I put an EPDM rubber roof on our TT, I had about $300 in that job. Any shop can do a "rubber" roof, I don't know of one that could do a full fiberglass roof replacement - other than the factory.

I'm not saying "rubber" is better, I AM saying some fiberglass just isn't too good.

For the record, ours has a BriteTek roof, which is a modified rubber. It's our 3rd one with this system and I absolutely love it.

MMM - not really fair to talk about costs doing a roof yourself in the garage. My comparison was based on the typical rubber roof replacement on a 40' fifth wheel at $6,000 - real dollars based on an Alpha Roof. Alpha may be an improved material over other rubber roofs, but is very thin by the way - not the best roof out there for resistance to branches or screws coming up through the bottom.

I'm actually going to call a Dealer today to see how they would handle a fiberglass roof. Other than shipping, I don't see a high skill set required to install it.

DriverMan wrote:
My thanks to all of you for your comments.

It looks to me the roof problem with Winnebago is a serious one. Such a problem could literally destroy your motorhome. An that its most likely out of warranty by that time could be financially catastrophic, or am I overstating things?

You mentioned the seal, is this something you can reasonable check on your own? And if so is it something you can fix on your own?

How often should something like this be checked, every 5 years, 10 years, what? Can I assume this is all Winnebago's and not just the entry level Forza?

Is the a deal breaker? I can't think of many things worse than a faulty roof! I can understand slide problems etc, but a roof, Not Good!

I did a Google search for "trouble with Winnebago roofs" and was surprised to find very little on the subject! Has Winnebago commented on it anywhere and what their doing about it?

Mile High gave a great explanation and illustration of the issue. Maintenance/inspection is required every 6 months I believe. The Itasca (Winnie twin) we owned was built before they went to this terrible design. For me it would be a deal breaker.

As for the repair, well...do you know anyone other than the factory that can change that roof? I sure don't. As to cost, I disagree with Mile High on that one. I currently have a 35' 5th wheel in my garage - I'm helping a friend replace his rubber roof. It's basically done, he has roughly $800 in materials. He went with the Alpha system, it's pretty nice. A few years back I put an EPDM rubber roof on our TT, I had about $300 in that job. Any shop can do a "rubber" roof, I don't know of one that could do a full fiberglass roof replacement - other than the factory.

I'm not saying "rubber" is better, I AM saying some fiberglass just isn't too good.

For the record, ours has a BriteTek roof, which is a modified rubber. It's our 3rd one with this system and I absolutely love it.

IMO, any of the new motorhomes from most mid level manufacturers are likely to leave the factory with build quality issues. Some will be merely annoying and can be fixed by a competent dealer (hard to find those these days) and some will be major. If you buy new, plan to spend at least the first year working out issues. RV's are not built by a lot of automation like autos and build quality relies heavily on the skill of the workers putting them together and their desire to do it right.

I owned two Winnebago's but they were built before the downturn of 2009. They were both decent coaches. Yes, the roof design is weak and Winnebago should change it. I would not reject an otherwise acceptable coach based on that. However, I would use either Eternabond tape on that seam (a permanent fix) or at least replace the factory sealant with a good urethane sealant like Proflex or 3M4200.

DriverMan wrote:
My thanks to all of you for your comments.

It looks to me the roof problem with Winnebago is a serious one. Such a problem could literally destroy your motorhome. An that its most likely out of warranty by that time could be financially catastrophic, or am I overstating things?

You mentioned the seal, is this something you can reasonable check on your own? And if so is it something you can fix on your own?

How often should something like this be checked, every 5 years, 10 years, what? Can I assume this is all Winnebago's and not just the entry level Forza?

Is the a deal breaker? I can't think of many things worse than a faulty roof! I can understand slide problems etc, but a roof, Not Good!

I did a Google search for "trouble with Winnebago roofs" and was surprised to find very little on the subject! Has Winnebago commented on it anywhere and what their doing about it?

Winnebago has used that design forever, so in contrast to the ones that have trouble, there are tons of them out there that never do. Again, you only hear about the bad ones.

If the wind rips it off, its not the end of the motorhome, but it is expensive to fix, probably similar to replacing a rubber roof that has caught air underneath and billowed up and stretched.

I just checked mine (it is an easy check - you push on the edge of the fiberglass and if the seal splits open it needs recaulked). There were 2 places I pulled out the caulk and resealed it, mainly the black painted areas where the heat was highest in the sun.

Obviously from what I own I didn't think it was a deal breaker, and I still feel that way, it is just something to stay on top of like any other seal.

If you would like to see how the roof is actually installed - forward to minute 13:07 on this factory video and it will show you - pretty simple system. I think it is that interlock with the wall they don't want to give up:

Winnebago Tour

Also about minute 10:15 on this one below.

Winnebago Tour 2

My thanks to all of you for your comments.

It looks to me the roof problem with Winnebago is a serious one. Such a problem could literally destroy your motorhome. An that its most likely out of warranty by that time could be financially catastrophic, or am I overstating things?

You mentioned the seal, is this something you can reasonable check on your own? And if so is it something you can fix on your own?

How often should something like this be checked, every 5 years, 10 years, what? Can I assume this is all Winnebago's and not just the entry level Forza?

Is the a deal breaker? I can't think of many things worse than a faulty roof! I can understand slide problems etc, but a roof, Not Good!

I did a Google search for "trouble with Winnebago roofs" and was surprised to find very little on the subject! Has Winnebago commented on it anywhere and what their doing about it?

Mondooker wrote:
Hey Bruce, what's with the roof design? Haven't heard about that will you elaborate?

The roof is a one piece fiberglass that is rolled on the edges and tucked into an aluminum channel where it is sealed in place. If the seals are allowed to dry and crack, the edge of the roof can pop out of the channel. If you are in a high crosswind and it starts to pop out of the channel, it can be catastrophic to the roof. The way to avoid that problem is to make sure they seal remains in good shape.



Other companies have been more successful with a preformed roof. Winnebago seems to like to stick with what they have.