Miles

Our rig is a 2004 model with under 10K miles on the odometer. Illness etc has kept usage and mileage way down. We have had to replace the fridge, roof AC, converter charger, fresh water pump and house batteries and awning. The engine, cooling system, brakes, transmission and dash AC are fine. If I were to sell it, it would be a good buy. Because of non-use, we have changed oil and filter every 6 months or so. Not every unusually low mileage rig is a potential money pot. I would be very careful buying an unususally high mileage rig. Average RV mileage is about 5-6K miles per year. 80's to 90's rigs may have carbureted engines that labor excessively on grades at high altitudes, overheating problems, suspension problems, and appliances that are about to need replacement, water leak damage, and a lot if amatuer electrical and plumbing repairs for the new owner to deal with.

soren wrote:

Sorry, I assumed that you were referring to buying used rental RVs in a thread about the same?

I didn't get that impression at all. The thread title is "Miles" and the OP asked how many miles were too many on a used class C. This thread is not about rentals.

to the fresh damage I observed on rigs in the field, and the interesting experiencing of watching them get drug down tree limbs, backed into a dumpster, filled with enough folks that it looks like a clown car in the circus etc.... Want the truth? Talk to anybody working in a national park campground, great stories. As for sanitation, I have seen at least one experience in discharging waste at a dump station, performed by a Frenchmen in a C.A rig, that I don't even like to think about before breakfast.

That's too bad that you would just laugh when you see people having difficulties. It is also interesting to note that you equate these alleged issues you have observed only to rental units. Are you saying that private owners would never do anything stupid, damaging or abusive to their unit?

Sorry, but your "expertise" to put it charitably is at best, questionable. The rental period was Christmas 2008, from the Kissimmee Fl. location. Hardly "at least a decade ago", The unit was a '07 E450 with a totally trashed box installed. Given the low mileage and excellent condition of the cut-away, there is no doubting that the piece of garbage we received was as you say, "demated"

So lets see here, you want everyone to believe that you rented a one year old motorhome from a corporate owned location, at a corporate refurbishment center, with at least a hundred rental units and freshly refurbished sales units present, yet the one year old unit you got was so horribly trashed out and filthy from 6 year old kids and their families visiting Mickey Mouse that you are still prattling on about it 5 years later, and you didn't have the testes to discuss same with rental center staff at time of rental and have your concerns corrected prior to starting your rental?

Sorry, you'll have to forgive me, but I just don't believe your story. You claim to pay such close attention to rental units, yet you were totally ignorant about the condition of your own rental?

Not sure how your sales pitch responds to my comment, but it's important to keep the facts in in mind for those heading down this road. As for negotiations, others here claim that C.A. does not discount in any significant amounts? Perhaps they are not as savvy as you claim to be, who knows? Assuming that several other members and owners here are correct, then these products that a massive depreciation hit when the second owner decides to get rid of them in a short period of time. If not, it would be tough to explain how searching a national RV classified site often shows a supply of Majestic rigs, in similar condition to those offered by C.A, only a year or two older, with ASKING prices of 30-50% less? If folks are paying in the low to mid-$20K range for these things, and two years later the same rig is sitting on a dealers lot for an ASKING of $17K, somebody got their butt handed to them. Have bought and sold many RVs over the years, I guess I'm not nearly as smart as you, but in my mind, it's pretty hard to claim that losing 50% of your initial investment in a short period of time qualifies as a "tremendous bargain"

It is not a sales pitch. I am not in sales, but I do have a working knowledge of simple math. You state that someone can purchase a unit in the low $20s, and then several years later are offering it at $17K. Lets assume condition never changed one iota. So for two years of use, an owner is accepting a $2,500 hit.

I suspect you probably are a renter, but how much did you lose in the first two years owning whatever rig you may own? Most people who buy new lose half in the first year of ownership. Owning any RV for $1250 a year in depreciation is an excellent bargain. All RV's depreciate. Despite what you may want everyone to believe, these things are not casks of fine wine.

Soren, somehow you managed to read a whole lot more into my post than what I actually stated. When I brought up units that have been beat up, I was not specifically referring to rental units. In fact, moreso I was referring to privately owned coaches.

Sorry, I assumed that you were referring to buying used rental RVs in a thread about the same? Having a home base ten miles from one of the giant Nascar venues, I can assure you that heavily decaled rentals are well represented in the abuse you describe.

I am not sure why that would be worthy of a smile, but this has not been my experience at all. In fact, foreign tourists are among the best, most reliable renters overall. Just because they may not speak english does not make them ignorant or abusive. They care for the equipment, keep it clean, and turn it in at least as clean as they received it. I'd have a lot fewer headaches if all my business was international.

The smile specifically relates to thinking about the delusion that these things are lovingly used, meticulously maintained and worth a premium, as I watch them get abused. You make a lot of assumptions and clearly state "facts" counter to discussions I have had with folks in campground management, Counter to the fresh damage I observed on rigs in the field, and the interesting experiencing of watching them get drug down tree limbs, backed into a dumpster, filled with enough folks that it looks like a clown car in the circus etc.... Want the truth? Talk to anybody working in a national park campground, great stories. As for sanitation, I have seen at least one experience in discharging waste at a dump station, performed by a Frenchmen in a C.A rig, that I don't even like to think about before breakfast. As for helping anybody that needs it, I'm always there, and have done hook-ups for several Europeans in rentals that obviously had either no training, or no understanding of what was said when shown how to.

Your experience with Cruise America is obviously quite dated since they abandoned the practice of demating units at least a decade ago. Most units in the current Cruise America fleet are late model '12s, '13s and '14s


Sorry, but your "expertise" to put it charitably is at best, questionable. The rental period was Christmas 2008, from the Kissimmee Fl. location. Hardly "at least a decade ago", The unit was a '07 E450 with a totally trashed box installed. Given the low mileage and excellent condition of the cut-away, there is no doubting that the piece of garbage we received was as you say, "demated"

Indeed, they are easily identifiable. Cruise America owns the Four Winds "Majestic" model name, so any "Majestic" unit was a previous Cruise America unit. Interior features and certain system design elements are Cruise America spec designed for the rental environment based upon things they have learned over years of operating experience and millions of miles on the fleet. In fact, a lot of the features you see on consumer grade Four Winds units are features that have been previously tested and proven on the Cruise America fleet and then incorporated into consumer grade units.

As to asking price versus a later selling price, I have no opinion on that other than to say I have bought and sold many Cruise units and never lost a dime. If a buyer doesn't know how to negotiate, that is hardly the fault of the unit. For a first time owner or a cost conscious family, they are a tremendous bargain to help people get into the lifestyle without an enormous up front investment or a unit that is costly to own and maintain. Only an absolute luddite would be unable to do his/her own maintenance on an ex-rental unit.


Not sure how your sales pitch responds to my comment, but it's important to keep the facts in in mind for those heading down this road. As for negotiations, others here claim that C.A. does not discount in any significant amounts? Perhaps they are not as savvy as you claim to be, who knows? Assuming that several other members and owners here are correct, then these products that a massive depreciation hit when the second owner decides to get rid of them in a short period of time. If not, it would be tough to explain how searching a national RV classified site often shows a supply of Majestic rigs, in similar condition to those offered by C.A, only a year or two older, with ASKING prices of 30-50% less? If folks are paying in the low to mid-$20K range for these things, and two years later the same rig is sitting on a dealers lot for an ASKING of $17K, somebody got their butt handed to them. Have bought and sold many RVs over the years, I guess I'm not nearly as smart as you, but in my mind, it's pretty hard to claim that losing 50% of your initial investment in a short period of time qualifies as a "tremendous bargain"

soren wrote:
Mocoondo, Great post. It's good to see that you not only have experience with owning rental units, but address the fact that some can, and do get the snot beat out of them.

Soren, somehow you managed to read a whole lot more into my post than what I actually stated. When I brought up units that have been beat up, I was not specifically referring to rental units. In fact, moreso I was referring to privately owned coaches.

I always smile after a summer on the road, watching mostly foreign tourist, beating, banging and abusing their rented class Cs

I am not sure why that would be worthy of a smile, but this has not been my experience at all. In fact, foreign tourists are among the best, most reliable renters overall. Just because they may not speak english does not make them ignorant or abusive. They care for the equipment, keep it clean, and turn it in at least as clean as they received it. I'd have a lot fewer headaches if all my business was international.

I rented one that was re-bodied, with a totally exhausted box moved over to a new E450 cutaway. Not only was the thing given to us with a filthy interior, and had at least 1/2 dozen defects, it was like talking to a wall when we returned the thing. They couldn't cared less.

Your experience with Cruise America is obviously quite dated since they abandoned the practice of demating units at least a decade ago. Most units in the current Cruise America fleet are late model '12s, '13s and '14s.

The other issue is that they are a easily identifiable, custom made unit, even after they go through the reconditioning process. Thus, it's pretty easy to track them on the secondary market, and it appears that they really drop like a rock, once they have been in the second owner's hands for a year or two. Nothing to see a unit for $24K on the C.A site and find the same thing with an ASKING price 8-10K less, on a dealer's lot, in the same condition, but a year or two older.

Indeed, they are easily identifiable. Cruise America owns the Four Winds "Majestic" model name, so any "Majestic" unit was a previous Cruise America unit. Interior features and certain system design elements are Cruise America spec designed for the rental environment based upon things they have learned over years of operating experience and millions of miles on the fleet. In fact, a lot of the features you see on consumer grade Four Winds units are features that have been previously tested and proven on the Cruise America fleet and then incorporated into consumer grade units.

As to asking price versus a later selling price, I have no opinion on that other than to say I have bought and sold many Cruise units and never lost a dime. If a buyer doesn't know how to negotiate, that is hardly the fault of the unit. For a first time owner or a cost conscious family, they are a tremendous bargain to help people get into the lifestyle without an enormous up front investment or a unit that is costly to own and maintain. Only an absolute luddite would be unable to do his/her own maintenance on an ex-rental unit.

Mocoondo, Great post. It's good to see that you not only have experience with owning rental units, but address the fact that some can, and do get the snot beat out of them. I always smile after a summer on the road, watching mostly foreign tourist, beating, banging and abusing their rented class Cs, then see a post by another rental owner here proclaiming that's it's nothing but puppies and rainbows, never a problem, better than new, and nobody who hasn't gone down that road has to right to question the concept.

IMHO, I wouldn't outright reject one, but Cruise America would be a deal breaker. I rented one that was re-bodied, with a totally exhausted box moved over to a new E450 cutaway. Not only was the thing given to us with a filthy interior, and had at least 1/2 dozen defects, it was like talking to a wall when we returned the thing. They couldn't cared less. The other issue is that they are a easily identifiable, custom made unit, even after they go through the reconditioning process. Thus, it's pretty easy to track them on the secondary market, and it appears that they really drop like a rock, once they have been in the second owner's hands for a year or two. Nothing to see a unit for $24K on the C.A site and find the same thing with an ASKING price 8-10K less, on a dealer's lot, in the same condition, but a year or two older. OTOH, if they are as good as some claim, at that point they me be a great buy. Thanks for posting.

I think Mocoondo, makes a valid point about system use and milage, I tend to forget not everyone uses a MH like I do. In my case, we travel a lot, rarely stop in FHU sites. So in our case, our system use and milage would correlate pretty close. And we do the service. But still in the near future, I will not be to surprised if a heater or fridge lets go. As our milage is a pretty direct reflection of how many nights we have used all those systems.

But as Mocoondo said, a different rig could spend most of it's time parked, with low miles and high use, or high miles and low use if always FHU sites and warmer weather.

X-rental owner here with high mileage. No problems for us.
Talking with a guy last summer. He has lost more in depreciation over the last two years than what we paid for the whole thing over five years ago. Newer motors (last 10 years) if taken care of last a long, long time.

winnietrey wrote:
Both Mocoondo, and Ichambod are big fans of ex-rentals. Icamabod has not chimed in yet, but I am sure he will.

Both are good guys, and make valid points.

Just to clarify what might be a few misconceptions, while I wouldn't exactly consider myself a "fan" of ex-rentals, I do think ex-rentals are an excellent bargain because I have extensive experience with the product. My current rig is not an ex-rental, but I have owned many ex-rentals in the past and never once got hurt.

but the other part of that is the higher the milage, one would guess the more use on the house internal systems, heater, fridge etc. So one would think they would be prone to fail earlier, than a low use unit.

This is a common misconception. There is really no way to correlate systems use with chassis mileage. I have seen PLENTY of units that spent their entire life driving 30 miles round trip to a race with rowdy NASCAR fans jumping around on the roof. 15,000 miles on the odometer and 2,500 hours on the genset. These units have low comparitive mileage, but are rode hard and put away wet. On the other hand, I've also seen plenty of high mileage units that spent most of their lives on the road and were gently used camping here and there, always plugged into FHU sites where the genset was never run, water pumps never turned on, etc. You get the idea. Also, the average usage profile of a motorhome dictates that the coach systems are rarely in use while traveling down the highway. There are always exceptions, but most people do not run their genny while going down the highway. I know, I know...some do, but MOST don't. Most people do not run the RTAC or furnace full time while driving down the highway, instead relying on climate control from the chassis. Most water pumps are not active while driving down the highway. Most fridges are in LP mode with only a small pilot light flame lit. The actual coach systems, normally, receive most of their use while the unit is parked. Heck, my 2013 unit is now two full seasons old, 18,000 miles and come to think of it, I don't believe I have ever even turned on the furnace, and I think I have 6 hours on the genset.

Since I also work on these things for a living, I can tell you from my experience that I cannot directly correlate failure of any of the systems with the odometer reading on the chassis. In fact, the only thing I can really say with any honesty is that systems repairs tend to correlate well with coach AGE and preventative maintenance instead of mileage on the chassis. Older units tend to see more repairs needed as do units which receive less than stellar preventative maintenance, irrespective of mileage.

So, I still maintain that mileage is not a good indicator of future performance of a given coach. With proper maintenance, the number of miles on the odometer is more or less irrelevant. The house will still outlast the chassis.

Danford50 wrote:
Looking to purchase a used class c and i was wondering about the mile on a used unit , How many miles is too many on a use unit?

Are you Rep. or Dem. Under less than 30,000 for first, under 150,000 for secound.

Well being that I got a mention in a earlier post I guess that I should chime in, even if my name was spelled wrong :B

The points that were made by others are valid, the key in all of this is the maintenance of the Chassis and how well and often it was done and documented. I have 28 pages.

As we all know the modern vehicles are made to last a long time, hence the longer warrantee periods of most of them, IF, and that is a big IF they are maintained well and often.

As you can see in the Link in my signature about buying a rental that more than 25 owners of Ex Rentals have had no problems with High Mileage Well Maintained RVs.

You will find a lot of opinions about this but not any facts to back them up. Only the real owners can tell you about the reliability of a vehicle.

So If you follow the suggestions of Sloop Smitten and others I believe that there would be no reason not to look at a high mileage RV if it was well maintained.

Just check the House part for leaks and other problems that will come along later and be very costly to fix.