oil change

WILDEBILL308 wrote:

Well there agene you are wrong Sully. Bearings wearer with use that is why you have to rebuild engines. When they reach a point where they no longer control oil flow they need to be replaced. In the case I posted earlier you would need to replace the main bearings if the oil gap was 0.002. Let me try to explain this a different way for you. If you have a gap of 0.001 and a gap of 0.006 which one would 50 weight oil flow through faster? Now if you were concerned about getting oil through the smaller 0.001 gap wouldn't it make sense to use a 20 wt. oil?
Bill

Engines ( internal combustion ones) get rebuilt because the RINGS are shot....not the bearings. If the oil has been doing its job...the gap isnt going to get larger than its initial wear-in dimenstion

Heisenberg wrote:
A new V-10, how could you go wrong with what Ford put in it? Wal Mart carries the Motorcraft 5w-20 synthetic blend and filter.

This is what I did!

I've never seen so many wrong answers from so many. There are a couple that are correct. I'm just gunna sit back and let you figure it out. You guys argue over the craziest things.

Synthetic.

I guess I have to go into more detail.

A typical journal bearing of a certain diameter, width and operating rpm well have a minimum allowable operating clearance (let's say that minimum CLEARANCE is .001 inch). Then let's say the minimum machining TOLERANCE for the bearing ID and for the shaft OD EACH is +/- .003 inch.

For a nominal 2" rotating shaft and bearing, the shaft will be spec'd something like 1.997" to 2.003". Thus the bearing will need to be spec'd to be from 2.004 to 2.010 to provide a minimum or .001 operating clearance with the smallest bearing going on the biggest shaft.

Now if tolerances can be reduced to +/- .0015 inch, the shaft can then be spec'd to 1.985 to 2.0015 and the bearing can be spec'd to 2.0025 to 2.0055. The minimum clearance is still .001" but the maximum clearance has been reduced from .013" to .007"----------which allows (but does not require) a thinner oil.

Both scenarios, however, require an oil "thin" enough to provide lube when things are at their tightest----------at cold start up.

At cold start up all oils are considerably thicker (by many times) than what they are at operating temps. Some typical viscosities (cSt)of Mobil 1 oils are:

Temp------5w-30------15w-50

-20----------6284--------21,852
0------------2129---------6462
25------------697---------1836
32------------531---------1348
50------------281----------657
100------------71----------138
150------------27-----------46
175------------18-----------30
200------------13-----------20
225------------10-----------15
250-------------7.6---------11.1


Please know that a 5w-20 oil will be very similar to the 5w-30 oil at cooler temps but drop to single digit viscosities at around 212 degrees F -------------which may be fine with a bearing and shaft machined to tight tolerances. This will also improve mpg during CAFE testing.

However, that close tolerance bearing was also fine with viscosities of several hundred when the engine was starting and warming up-----------and even several thousand if you live in the North.


Bottom line, a 5w-30 oil (or even a 5w-40) will do no damage to your engine where a 5w-20 oil is recommended. It may reduce your MPG by a small percentage, however. It will also provide more lubrication strength under heavy load and at higher temps.

My V10 often runs with the engine temp between 200 and 212 degrees (scan gauge). As I want it to last a long time, I will sacrifice 0.1 or 0.2 mpg to be sure it does.

Sully2 wrote:

WILDEBILL308 wrote:

427435 wrote:

WILDEBILL308 wrote:
The problem with running a oil with higher viscosity than recommended is todays engines are not your fathers engines. The internal tolerances are much tighter than those built 50 years ago. The rod bearings in your V10 Std Size Oil Clearance: 0.0011/0.0023 in. main bearing oil clearance 0.0001 - 0.0018. When you run a higher viscosity oil you don't get proper lubrication.
But you can run what ever you want in your engine I won't have to pay any money for repairs. I would run Mobil 1 0-20 if it was my engine.
Bill

Like many others, you are confusing reduced tolerances with reduced clearances. The minimum clearance that a certain bearing will successfully run at has not changed. But with tighter tolerances, more bearings are closer to that minimum tolerance (nor are there as many bearings that are "loose."

Well actually I do know what I am talking about. In this case we are talking about the oil gap. The bearings will be out of tolerance when they exceed the max dimensions listed. The oil gap is much tighter in newer engines than in the past and require a lower viscosity oil for proper lubrication.
You jump in on this by trying to talk about the manufacturing tolerance.
Bill

REGARDLESS of the thickness of the lube..the BEARINGS remain the size they were machined at!

Well there agene you are wrong Sully. Bearings wearer with use that is why you have to rebuild engines. When they reach a point where they no longer control oil flow they need to be replaced. In the case I posted earlier you would need to replace the main bearings if the oil gap was 0.002. Let me try to explain this a different way for you. If you have a gap of 0.001 and a gap of 0.006 which one would 50 weight oil flow through faster? Now if you were concerned about getting oil through the smaller 0.001 gap wouldn't it make sense to use a 20 wt. oil?
Bill

WILDEBILL308 wrote:

427435 wrote:

WILDEBILL308 wrote:
The problem with running a oil with higher viscosity than recommended is todays engines are not your fathers engines. The internal tolerances are much tighter than those built 50 years ago. The rod bearings in your V10 Std Size Oil Clearance: 0.0011/0.0023 in. main bearing oil clearance 0.0001 - 0.0018. When you run a higher viscosity oil you don't get proper lubrication.
But you can run what ever you want in your engine I won't have to pay any money for repairs. I would run Mobil 1 0-20 if it was my engine.
Bill

Like many others, you are confusing reduced tolerances with reduced clearances. The minimum clearance that a certain bearing will successfully run at has not changed. But with tighter tolerances, more bearings are closer to that minimum tolerance (nor are there as many bearings that are "loose."

Well actually I do know what I am talking about. In this case we are talking about the oil gap. The bearings will be out of tolerance when they exceed the max dimensions listed. The oil gap is much tighter in newer engines than in the past and require a lower viscosity oil for proper lubrication.
You jump in on this by trying to talk about the manufacturing tolerance.
Bill

REGARDLESS of the thickness of the lube..the BEARINGS remain the size they were machined at!

My 06 came from the factory with full syn so that is what I have used for 36K.

427435 wrote:

WILDEBILL308 wrote:
The problem with running a oil with higher viscosity than recommended is todays engines are not your fathers engines. The internal tolerances are much tighter than those built 50 years ago. The rod bearings in your V10 Std Size Oil Clearance: 0.0011/0.0023 in. main bearing oil clearance 0.0001 - 0.0018. When you run a higher viscosity oil you don't get proper lubrication.
But you can run what ever you want in your engine I won't have to pay any money for repairs. I would run Mobil 1 0-20 if it was my engine.
Bill

Like many others, you are confusing reduced tolerances with reduced clearances. The minimum clearance that a certain bearing will successfully run at has not changed. But with tighter tolerances, more bearings are closer to that minimum tolerance (nor are there as many bearings that are "loose."

Well actually I do know what I am talking about. In this case we are talking about the oil gap. The bearings will be out of tolerance when they exceed the max dimensions listed. The oil gap is much tighter in newer engines than in the past and require a lower viscosity oil for proper lubrication.
You jump in on this by trying to talk about the manufacturing tolerance.
Bill

10forty2 wrote:

10forty2 wrote:

othertonka wrote:

10forty2 wrote:
With it being that new, I would definitely use what the owner's manual recommends...at least through the warranty period. If you want to switch over to something else after that, then by all means....

For my 1999 model V10, I used synthetic Mobile 1, 5W-30 and the OEM Motorcraft filter for my recent oil change.

Ford recommends 5W x 20, not 5W x 30. Why did you use 5W x 30? Do you Know something that ford does not know? Just curious

Let me check...it may have actually been 5W-20 instead of 5W-30. I was typing from my fragile, elderly memory and not from my service notebook. But either way, the upper viscosity end of 30W isn't too thick to hurt anything and may actually be good in hotter running. The lower end is what is the most concern for that cold engine start. I'll check and correct myself if I used 5W20 instead. Thanks for catching that!

Nope...it was 5W-30 Mobile 1 Syn. Didn't really mean to spark off a national incident... ;-)

You will always get a large response on this subject.
Bill