Forum Discussion

DeanCHS1980

Explorer

Feb 22, 2015

Reflections on 6 Months of RV Research! ;)

Hi Class C Forum,

I caught the RV bug about 6 months ago after a particularly stressful stretch at work. Researching RVs has become the way that I decompress when I have some discretionary time. Currently, I have many semesters of college tuition to pay for our two daughters before making the RV plunge. In the meantime, I am going to continue to read forums and blogs as well as watching RV videos on You Tube. My DW and I even attended our first RV show in January. I live about 400 miles south of Elkhart, IN and we are considering a trip to the Promise Land this summer! ;)

I "think" I have learned enough over the last six months that I wanted to summarize my thoughts and get some reactions from the pros. Of all the forums I have read over the months, this Class C Forum on RV.Net has been the one that I have read the most and has engaged my interest the most. Here is a summary of my thoughts about RVs.

First, buying an RV is a series of compromises. Most of us have limited incomes, so how much we spend is the first consideration. Related to that is whether one buys new or used. There are obviously benefits and challenges associated with both. The other issue is whether to buy a Class A, B, C, or a Truck Camper. I love the "idea" of a truck camper. The largest models by Host, Chalet, Lance, and Eagle Cap with double and triple slides are quite impressive; however, they require significant trucks to carry them, you have to exit the truck to enter them, and you often have to extend the slides to enter them. Despite my attraction to TCs, my rational and logical DW was not overly impressed. Class As represent the other end of the spectrum, typically. They are larger and often quite luxurious and include significant floor plan options and storage. However, I believe my DW and I would prefer the RVs associated with a van-like chassis. One option is the Class B or van conversions. Research and the opportunity to see a couple at a recent RV show led us to the conclusion that these are just too small for us. They are precision instruments and their followers are passionate and I appreciate this, but not for us. For the above reasons, I think the Class C represents the BEST compromise for my DW and myself, thus my decision to post this on the Class C forum.

OK, having chosen a Class C, I have determined there are still a wide number of variables to consider. Length, height, and width are all important variables to consider. I have discovered that gas vs diesel and MB or Ford or Chevy are hot topics among RVers. I have learned much from reading about these passionate discussions. Even once the decision that a Class C is probably best, there are still many fun compromises to be contemplated because I would like to have a 31 to 32 foot floor plan in a 25 foot rig. Obviously, the laws of physics are going to prevent that! For me, I break length into three categories 1) 24 to 26 feet, 2) 26 to 29 feet, and 3) 29 to 32 feet. Given these three categories, for me, I am leaning toward the tweener category of 26 to 29 feet. In terms of width, I prefer not wider than 8 feet (96 inches). In terms of height, I prefer 10'6" or under. This brings up another apparent controversy within the Class C RV world. I think I prefer a Class B+. Of course, I prefer the class that does not really exist! Go figure. Technically, I understand that a Class B+ is really a Class C. Got it! To round out my preferences, I lean gas over diesel and I lean Ford over MB, yet I still look at Ram Pro Master models as well. In terms of floor plans, I prefer a permanent bed on the floor, thus I like island beds or twin beds over corner beds, cab over bunks, or multipurpose beds. If I have to choose between a sofa or a dinette, I choose a sofa. Of course this brings us to the issue of "to slide or not to slide" AND if you are going to slide, then how many??? Hmmm, I would prefer a non-slide unit, but that is not realistic for what we want in a floor plan, thus I am fine with slides, but the fewer the better. Thus, a sofa slide is acceptable to help open up the floor plan. Oh, and I have not even mentioned the variables of cargo carrying capacity (CCC) and outside storage. Whew!

Based on the above, here are the manufacturers, models, and floor plans that interest me the most (alphabetical order). All seem to be of high quality, imo (understanding that quality is a relative term). Here we go. . .

Born Free (Splendor would be my choice despite it being a corner bed). BFs are pricey, though.

Coach House (Platinum 271 XL). Again, Coach House is pricey!

Dynamax (Isata 280 or 282). Nice, but pricey!

Leisure Travel Vans (Unity IB or TB). Great units. Living area a bit tight. MB chassis. But, sweet!

Lexus (Viper 27V). Impressive quality, given the price. Most economical. Two slides.

Lazy Daze (27 ft. Mid-bath). No slides, nice. But, no real permanent twin beds.

Phoenix Cruiser (2552 model). Single slide. Nice floor plan, despite preferring a mid-bath floor plan.

Winnebago/Itasca (View 24V or Navion 24V). Best all around floor plan, imo. But, on the MB chassis and living/galley area a bit tight.

OK, I have listed my preferences in terms of the many compromising variables that one must consider along with the manufacturers that I prefer, so if I had to really get down to it, which would I choose?

Assuming buying new, I would have to remove Born Free, Coach House, and Dynamax from my list. I can't imagine choosing to pay what I would need to pay for those sweet rigs. I love the retro nature and quality of Lazy Daze, but there is no floor plan that entices me without going out to 31 feet. This narrows it down to my Top 4. The LTV Unity models are amazing, but perhaps a bit tight in the living/galley quarters and they are on the MB chassis. The Winnebago/Itasca (Views 24V/Navions 24V) are efficient in length and in all dimensions other than height. Love the placement of the TV relative to the sofa (single slide that opens up the floor plan, plus the versatility of a bunk over the cab). The living/galley area is still a wee tight and on the MB chassis, but the best overall floor plan, imo. This brings me to the Nexus Viper 27V and the Phoenix Cruiser 2552. The Phoenix Cruiser 2552 is a bit more "trim" and efficient in terms of being 8 inches shorter in length (27' 10"), 3 inches narrower (93"), 3 inches shorter in height (10' 1"). All of these issues are important to me. Despite having a beautiful rear bathroom, I prefer a mid-bath to isolate the bedroom area. I don't really like the location of the TV. And, there is limited external storage. On the other hand, Phoenix Cruiser (like Nexus) will work to customize the coach for you and both are factory direct, which I like. So, if I had the fortune to choose today, I would choose a Phoenix Cruiser 2552 with some bells and whistles!!! :)

However, since I am at the beginning of my RV quest, EVERYTHING is possible and I can change my mind as much as I want. Besides, being too windy, what are your thoughts about my RV review? Are there issues, variables, or other items that I still need to factor into the equation? The only reason that I know what I know is because of the expertise, wisdom, passion, and experience shared by those like you on this forum.

Thanks,

Dean

Class C

RedJeep
Explorer
Feb 22, 2015
I like to say that an RV'ers favorite food is waffles. Get it? Waffle? A, B, C, TC, FW, ...
burlmart
Explorer
Feb 22, 2015
welcome, dean

you've captured the nature of this C forum's way of discussing the physical form of the rig. what is just as important is when, where, how, and with whom you will use it. heated tanks, home (covered) storage, uneven SP sites, mostly inside, one person rises hours before the other, bring children or later grand-children.

since the price of the LTV did not put you off too much, and if you want a lush-quality well engineered rig to be proud to own for years to come, you may have a great choice w/ a unity. if mostly you and wife are rving, these B+ rigs really deliver. if a joiner, they also have user group and annual rallies of owners possibly w/ similar interests.

that mid bath is sweet as it separates rooms and you can close bedroom lf one of you rises early. you are shorting your galley/LR space w/ the fixed beds - think about how much time during day might those beds be used to read or relax vs using LR.

just for starters...
Teacher_s_Pet
Explorer
Feb 22, 2015
Personally I would never, ever have another wet bath or side bath. Storage is my prime consideration in any RV. Nexus is a lot more RV for the dollar spent. Save your "fortune" for travel, don't dump it into the salesman's pocket. Having been to both plants, Nexus I believe I could work with, not at all with your final choice.
MobileBasset
Explorer
Feb 22, 2015
All good thoughts. You are precise about your length categories and I don't know if that is for consideration of storage/parking space, available floor plan, or drivability but the length advertised in the specs is rarely the length of the complete vehicle. It is some other mysterious measurement. So if it really matters, measure it yourself. My vehicle model is a 25, the spec sheet says 26.6, my storage facility says it is 28.
j-d
Explorer II
Feb 22, 2015
As new coaches, Nexus looks good. So does Phoenix Cruiser. You won't go far wrong with a Winnebago (or Itasca) product. The Forest River Sunseeker and Forester are really catching on in the last few seasons. Then I'm thinking Jayco and Fleetwood. Toward the bottom of my list, the Coachmen products. Thor seems to be having problems with Class C's. Recent info indicates the RAM ProMaster chassis doesn't have adequate capacity. Mere existence of a chassis doesn't mean somebody should build on it.
Remember, Floor Plan Rules! If you and significant other don't like the layout, Chassis, Roof, etc. etc. won't keep you happy.
We thought of a B+ (yeah, doesn't really exist and it's more like a C- but how would THAT sell) but what we found was the attractive sizing reduces storage to darn near zero. DW wouldn't have one without a Pantry. We wanted an Oven. And a "separate bedroom." Ended up with a 31-ft C with wide (101") body.
Watch the Wheel Base to Length Ratio. The low 50% range is supposed to be OK but a number of C's have trouble with light front axle and overloaded rear axle in that ratio range. Better to shop in the upper 50%'s. Include a Truck Stop in your Test Drive. Make sure front tires on a C are between 55 and 65-psi and spend $10 to weigh it on their CAT scale. If you actually can check the rear tires, go for 70 to 80-psi and more importantly that they're close to same pressure in all four. Then you'll know where you stand. If it's Front Light/Rear Heavy you really can't do much about it by shifting your stuff.
A 31-ft should have a WB approaching 220-inches.
tatest
Explorer II
Feb 22, 2015
What is on the market will likely be changing between now and when you have tuition paid off, particularly for B+/C, though it is also happening to smaller A designs. The process has started with the introduction of North American versions of "global" vans and design of new motorhome floorplans to fit these platforms, along the lines of what we've been seeing in Europe for about 10 years.

With the lower floor of the Ducato/Promaster (and FWD Transit when it finally comes over) motorhomes will no longer have to be 10'6" to 11'6" high to provide interior headroom. With many B+ designs we've already started the shrink in width from 8'6" to something less than 8" (and of course, anything contained within a van will be less than 80" or the slightly smaller metric equivalent for the "maximum standard width" of a vehicle). Bringing GVWR down from seven tons or more to something around five tons, or less, has seen the introduction of lighter weight solutions to the house systems, such as tankless water heaters, composting or cassette toilets, all-electric systems replacing LPG appliances and on-board gensets. Some of this, of course, is possible because of changes in how we use RVs, and if you must be off the grid yet want on the grid comforts, you'll be buying something more like what was worked out in the 1960s and remains in use today.

I'm looking forward to the changes, just have not yet seen them go far enough to make it worthwhile to trade my paid for, too big for me but quite adequate RV for something with a lighter footprint. What's being built here today on Ram Promaster represents manufacturers experiementing with what the market might accept, but also looking toward a changing market with more social consciousness.
eb145
Explorer II
Feb 22, 2015
Have fun researching this.

Here are my comments that might be useful for you.

- My first TT had no slide. Very cramped, even at 30 feet, for two of us it was like living in a hallway. If somebody was at the sink, stove or fridge, nobody could pass. After 7 years of that we knew we wanted a slide or two.

- I am now on my second TT (30 feet) and it has one large deep slide and it has been wonderful for the last 3 years. It really opens up the space and is even comfortable for 8 or 10 people to fit into for dinner if you have to get out of a thunder storm.

- My college tuition payments are all done and now we are looking for a 5th wheel triple slide with even more space for the living area. We were looking at upgrading to a 30 ft. Class C with a single large slide but realized it was basically the same as our current TT so it made no sense for us to pay to "upgrade" to the same floorplan.

Suggestion: go to lots of RV shows and sit in the units that have the floor plans that interest you. Sit in it for 30 minutes or more while slowly exploring and "using" the features. See how it feels. See how it feels when other people walk in and fill the place up.

Spend lots of time in the 2 or 3 floorplans that really interest you, and keep moving back and forth between them so you can "feel" the differences between them.

RV shows let you spend lots of time in the floorplans that interest you without being questioned and pushed by sales people. Just tell the sales people that ask to help, that you plan to buy in 12 months or more - they can't run away fast enough when you tell them that :-)

Ed
Islandman
Explorer
Feb 22, 2015
You've done a fine job of analyzing all the things we look for in a motorhome; one caution don't let the price deter you too much. We purchased a used low-mileage Coach House and are pleased with our choice, it was less than half the cost of a new one and was well taken care of. Another thing is that unless you are going to be full-timing, you and your family can probably adapt to a little inconvenience like limited space, like you're on a camping trip or traveling somewhere and really don't need all the luxuries of home. You will only use it two or three months of the year and the joy of travel and camping out will let everyone adapt to RV living. Go to shows as others have noted, look on Craigslist, Camping World, PPL, or rvtrader.com for ideas on nice used RV's.
pnichols
Explorer II
Feb 22, 2015
Well ... you're certainly covering the "interior layout" portion of searching for a Class C very thoroughly.

We did not shop that way when we bought our new Winnebago. We shopped mostly by reviewing the specifications, implementation workmanship, company reputation, and lastly - interior layout ... except for two things we would not compromise on ... we needed as short a possible (to be able to camp "anywhere") and a permanent bed always available (for the DW to quickly give her bad back a rest anytime).

I guess you could say we wanted to buy-it-right-and buy-it-once, hence we had long term viability as our criteria and highest priority. What we got was just enough out of the mainstream of what other shoppers looked for in a Class C such that it's design quit being offered by Winnebago about one year after we bought it. We are amazed to this day on how our Class C has satisfied us - maybe we got lucky, too.
EMD360
Explorer
Feb 22, 2015
Sounds like you are looking at new rigs and I understand how RV research and RV.net can be a great stress reliever too.
With a new RV your criteria can be more specific. If you are looking for used, you will start with preferences but be most interested in a rig that is in good condition for the cost.
If you are getting a loan, seems like buying new at the best possible discount is a reasonable choice, if paying cash, you are less likely to want to sink it into a new vehicle because of the immediate depreciation.
Of course your idea of how you will use it now may change over time. That is, in established RV parks, state parks, nationals--those tend to have more primitive facilities--for long haul travel once or twice a year as a couple or with your grown kids etc.
We wanted a used rig because we had set a lower cash budget, which we exceeded by a grand or so. Oh well. Not as disciplined as some I guess. But we had a bit of unexpected rot, not at the cabover as some do but at the rear panel below the floor level. I think the middle brake light was leaking. We rebuilt it for little money and we have had a few newbie driver "gotchas" that have banged us up a bit. So that might be a thought for you--do you want to subject a brand new RV to your learning curve?
As pnichols says, we seem to have either been extremely lucky in our pick of RV or we are just able to be happy with what we ended up with. I look all the time for newer vehicles but have not found anything I like as much as ours. We are very comfortable in our small RV and don't have any problem getting up in the bunk or managing to be comfortable together even with a couple of grandkids along. But we lived for five years in a 400 square foot cabin with our two kids so maybe we are not typical!
Enjoy your research and your search and get out on the road as soon as you can despite college tuition because you will not regret it. :-)